A Momentary Lapse of Reason vs Radio KAOS

[mosespa]

Pink Floyd would've fallen off the map if Gilmour hadn't kept them going without Waters.

DSOTM was already a legendarily selling (and still continuously selling) album when Waters left and before Gilmour picked up the mantle. It was already a rite-of-passage for at least American teens. You hadn't properly done drugs until you'd done them while listening to DSOTM.

They might not have gotten as popular in a mainstream sense, but I seriously doubt they'd have "fallen off the map." Maybe they'd have simply been the biggest cult band ever, but they'd still be selling albums today in numbers which would astonish people who thought they'd "had their day" or whatever.

At the very least, a new generation of Hipsters would "discover" them and bring them back to some extent.

Hell, when they broke up, I was an American teen just beginning to dip his feet in the pool. I wouldn't have let the fact that they didn't have any new product stop me from filling in the gaps in the back catalogue until I'd bought everything they had.

[ZiggyZipgun]

^ This is why I offered Bat Out of Hell as an example. It has still sold more copies than Dark Side of the Moon, and only for that one god awful track that is played on the radio. I don't believe Meat Loaf has reached successive generations of audiences, or is particularly revered as a timeless artist, despite still being quite active - releasing not one but two direct sequels to that album - and appearing in everything from The Rocky Horror Picture Show to Spiceworld and Fight Club, as well as Celebrity Apprentice and Glee.

The individual members of Pink Floyd wouldn't have maintained that kind of public presence, and a lot of people that got into them around the time of the Division Bell tour didn't know anything about Roger or assumed he was dead. The hipster market certainly would've provided an opportunity to hit the road again with the classic albums sooner or later, just like Weezer or Stone Temple Pilots, and that's about how relevant Roger's recent tours are. The Amused to Death tracks should probably hold a record for triggering the largest collective yawn when he performed them in 1999.

[mosespa]

I don't believe Meat Loaf has reached successive generations of audiences, or is particularly revered as a timeless artist,

Dunno where you live, but here in the US "heartland," I see nine-year olds wearing "Bat Out Of Hell" t-shirts. When asked what they know about Meatloaf, they tend to know (which you don't seem to,) that his stint in Rocky Horror precedes the film (he was in the original Roxy cast, for example,) AND his own career as a recording artist (the film came out in '75, the first Bat Out Of Hell album, two years later.)

Now, these children may be exceptions; but if you want to get technical, so is everyone (regardless of age) who ever bought a copy of any Pink Floyd album. *shrug*

[ZiggyZipgun]

A few things.

First of all, I'm well aware of the Rocky Horror production timeline (future Bowie collaborator Carlos Alomar played on the original cast recording!). I was merely pointing to the various other places that someone might be introduced to Meat Loaf outside of that one particular album.

Secondly, I was unaware that you and Meat Loaf were so popular with minors. I also don't know what recent circumstances would compel you to approach said minors. Now, that one child may have been the exception, but they would likely tell you whatever you wanted to hear to extricate themselves from the situation. And yes, most people that purchased a Pink Floyd album are also the exception, because that album was Dark Side of the Moon and it was the only one they ever bought.

[Kerry King]

I want you
I need you
But there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you
- Meatloaf, Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad

Ziggy, I believe these lines accurately describe your feelings about Roger Waters
---
Ok. This is getting ridiculous. AMLOR (album and tour) sold on the strength of past albums/tours.

Ziggy, your dislike for Waters is clouding your posts. When do you move on? I've given Waters plenty of shit here but I don't need to pretend that AMLOR is a great pf album. I don't need to pretend Waters was not a significant factor in pf's artistic triumphs. It's absurd revisionism. Now, let's all listen to Bat Out Of Hell and dream about kicking Jim Steinman in the nuts.

[ZiggyZipgun]

AMLOR (album and tour) sold on the strength of past albums/tours.

I started this thread in response to the other poll that included The Final Cut, which magically did not sell on the strength of the record-selling album and tour that it immediately followed. How does that work?

[dj865]

Pink Floyd would've fallen off the map if Gilmour hadn't kept them going without Waters. It sounds ridiculous, but so is fucking Meatloaf's Bat Out of Hell which has sold more copies than Dark Side if the Moon. Waters would never have attempted another solo tour if Pink Floyd hadn't undertaken two massive world tours without him. No one at Live 8 would've given a shit if they'd simply ceased to exist in 1985. Roger Waters sold out the name with The Wall, repackaging Tommy with radio-friendly disco shtick, and promptly ran it into the ground with The Final Cut. He took a band that was ahead of its time and walked it back ten years to rehash John Cale's Paris 1919. He then took what should've been a promising solo career and tanked that as well. If it weren't for A Momentary Lapse of Reason, Roger Waters wouldn't have an audience today.

This is a crazy wild theory

But on the question of Amlor Vs Kaos , I vote lapse (despite being team Roger)

[ZiggyZipgun]

It's absurd revisionism.

That's funny - that's what Roger said about his buddy Nick's book!

This is a crazy wild theory

How so?

[dj865]

This is a crazy wild theory

How so?
[/quote]

Rog had more albums to make regardless of what the others were doing

[mosespa]

Secondly, I was unaware that you and Meat Loaf were so popular with minors. I also don't know what recent circumstances would compel you to approach said minors. Now, that one child may have been the exception, but they would likely tell you whatever you wanted to hear to extricate themselves from the situation. And yes, most people that purchased a Pink Floyd album are also the exception, because that album was Dark Side of the Moon and it was the only one they ever bought.

I'm guessing you've never heard of people having friends who have children/grandchildren? How are you liking Earth so far?

Funny how they're able to come up with "exactly what I want to hear" in the form of actual trivia about the artist. Probably passed on to them by their parents, who--if you think about it--are probably not even old enough to have been first generation fans themselves.

It's okay to be wrong every once in a while.

Don't take it so hard; it's not a cock.

[ZiggyZipgun]

Don't take it so hard; it's not a cock.

That might work on 9 year olds, but not me.

[mosespa]

Should I come back with something for a 10 year old...or an 8 year old, then?

[ZiggyZipgun]

I'm still trying to reconcile my perception of the American heartland with your tale of roaming herds of knowledgable children wearing Meat Loaf t-shirts. It sounds like a Gerald Scarfe cartoon. I would be surprised if there's more than one, but if there's more than two, then there are a lot of people that can cancel their trips to Thailand. How many different fertility drugs was your Meat Loaf-obsessed friend abusing in 2011?

[mosespa]

The same ones yer ma did.

It might help if you involve yourself (or, imagine yourself involved, since I'm sure you're pretty loathe to leave the basement,) in things like Little League coaching (as my friend does,) Library Mentorship or other things which allow one to (legitimately,) interact with children in a guidance capacity. (Can't wait to see how you turn that into something unsavory; I've already got some ideas of where you'll take it, I can't wait to see you fall exactly into one of them.)

See...here in the "flyover states," we know how to take an interest in children without it being sexual. They are, after all, the future; didn't a black woman say that? So, you'd be racist to disagree or try to turn it into a joke, right?

[Kerry King]

AMLOR (album and tour) sold on the strength of past albums/tours.

I started this thread in response to the other poll that included The Final Cut, which magically did not sell on the strength of the record-selling album and tour that it immediately followed. How does that work?

Tfc sold plenty. Had there been a tour and more hype it would have sold more. It couldn't complete with Wall sales. For one thing it had no number one single. It's also not as good. You've really dug yourself a hole here now. I mean, this is what happens when one talks so much. Particularly one who seems to lack humility. If you're a better songwriter than Roger Waters now would be a good time to demonstrate. You can't be too much worse than Jim Steinman. Although his sinister, manipulative onslaught against confused American teens did take a certain kind of skill.

PS: To want and need someone is to love them...but 3 out of 3 ain't bad!