The Offical King Crimson Thread

SomeGhostsStepOut · Post by **SomeGhostsStepOut** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:16 am

Well everybody...I am recently getting into them. They are a great Prog-Rock band, Robert Fripp is a pretty cool guitarist & I own the albumd: In The Court of The Crimson King & Earthbound. My next album purchases are going to be Lizard, Lark's Tounge In Aspic, & Red. Don't like much of the 80's & 90's Crimson. What do you other members think of this band?

Diin Jaffa · Post by **Diin Jaffa** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:20 am

I thought Power to believe was good. they are little more than commercial prog band IMO. groundbreaking. I still think they are very good band. they came to finland couple months ago. unfortunately I wasnt able to make it.

Post by **mosespa** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:13 am

I can appreciate what they do. I've only heard a few songs and watched a live video they did back in the 1990's. A great deal of talent there.

In 1997, I was living in Evansville, Indiana (oddly enough, I'm most likely about to move back) and found myself jamming with a 40 year old drummer who was greatly influenced by Stewart Copeland and Bill Bruford, and a 19 year old bassist who dropped out of the prestigious Julliard School of Music because the curriculum bored him.

Not really knowing what we were going to play, I suggested "Paperback Writer" by the Beatles because there are only two chords in the whole song and it's really easy to learn.

It's also a really short song...two minutes and some change.

We used it as a springboard to improvise...after the proper song was over, I kicked on my Big Muff Pi distortion pedal (original vintage, not a re-issue), flipped my pick-up switch to the neck position and we just went off on these amazing tangents for twenty minutes.

When the drummer and I were getting acquanted, I had mentioned being familiar with Crimson, but hadn't really listened to much beyond 21st Century Schizoid Man, Cat Food and Three Of A Perfect Pair.

But when we finished jamming, he looked at me and said that he heard some "very Frippian lines" coming from my guitar.

Sadly, not long after, my g/f at the time lost her nerve to live away from the town she grew up in and the people she'd known for so long and thus, we returned to Paducah, Kentucky.

dogs_pigs_n_sheep · Post by **dogs_pigs_n_sheep** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:17 pm

I hope to god this is going to pick up! I am a bit of a Fripp fanatic, so I will tune it down for the general public consumtion.

First, everything after 80 is a whole new ball of wax. King Crimson has always been Fripp, but he does not make up the main flavor of the music, instead he makes up the strongest nuances in the music. Everything from 80 on is heavily Adrian Belew influanced, and all you really have to do to see this is buy Adrian Belew's Mr. Musichead and then listen to any of the three early 80 King Crimson albums (that would be, Discipline, Three of a Perfect Pair, and lastly Beat). I have to qualify the three albums I named. Beat was the second one and the worst one. Discipline is the first one and the best one. And T of a P P is the most commercial sounding Crimson you will ever hear.

The 80s sound was made up by some really good guys too. Belew as I said, Brufford, who also played drums with the band pre-80s, and Tony Levin on Bass. Levin and Brufford also have played many times with Peter Gabriel (as has Fripp).

That said, Adrian Belew is also a big favorite of mine. Everything from the 90s is much more improvisational, making it very different than everything else, but they seem to pay more tribute to the 80s sound than anything prior to that.

The pre-80s sounds are also divided by the people who play in the band. Again, the guitar of Robert Fripp is central, and amazing, but is not what makes the meat of the sound. He can play around in anyone elses sounds is the impression I get, and make other guys sound better.

Now, in order, my picks for starting with albums by the King!

In the Court of the Crimson King - reason - it is the best known, and is a good way to get introduced - 21st Century Schidzoid Man, need I say more?

Larks Tongue in Aspic - the best album IMHO, and introduces you to the weirdness you will learn to love (or not in some cases)

Starless and Bible Black - once you warm up (and you need to warm up to it) LTinA, you will be ready to warm up to SandBB.

Red - Acid rock and roll. Loud abrasive and a mastet piece.

In the Wake of Posiedon - Back to the old days - this is actually the second album, but easier to take after you warm up to the band a bit.

Discipline - Best of the 80s Crimson and some very good Adrian Belew to bood.

Lizard - A very weird album, that takes a while to get use to, but if you like all the above, you'll be so glad to hear yet another style from the Frippster.

Now, there are a bunch in the middle I didn't mention which are good, and a bunch after Discipline, but I think the above is a good order to start with before most of the others.

Also, there are a number (I think 5 or 6) greatest hits albums, but you really get ripped off by not getting to hear the weirdest and hardest to listen to stuff by going that route. You need to be able to listen to over and over the weird stuff, and you'll get hooked.

IMHO

SomeGhostsStepOut · Post by **SomeGhostsStepOut** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:06 pm

King Crimson has always been Fripp

I fell the same ways, or at least in the 70's era.

Also dogs_pigs_n_Sheep

Thanks for the album suggestions but like I have meantioned I am only going to Purchase Lark's Tounge In Aspi, Red, & Lizard.

& another question dogs_pigs_n_sheep, what Robert Fripp solo album do you suggest??

Thanks in advance

Alexander

JML · Post by **JML** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:40 pm

Lark's Tongues In Aspic is GREAT

, my first touch on King Crimson was In The Court and it blew my mind first time I heard it. At the time my fav in this album is Epitaph and least fav Moonchild (very obvious).

I'm interested listening more KC, I have listened two albums and they're great! Easy Money is weird but somehow familiar, like that very much.

dogs_pigs_n_sheep · Post by **dogs_pigs_n_sheep** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:47 pm

Yeah, I read what you were going to buy, but I wanted to get on the soap box for this offical King Crimson thread. I would never try disuade someone from picking out fine Crimson on their own.

On to Fripp. First, if you want to start with solo, go with Exposure. Great mix of stuff on that one. The other albums are very much experiments in Fripp's work with Frippertronics, a building on of Brian Eno's ambiant work.

I'd say make the jump after that to Evening Star, which is Fripp and Eno together. Fantastic work.

Also, not hardly appreciated by most would be the work with Fripp and the Police's Andy Summers on the album I Advance Masked. Much more rhythmic and melodic work. Again you can see where someone elses style bleeds through, and Fripp gets in the mix.

Much of Fripp's solo and even duet efforts are very much like the sceince of music, and sometimes the music part gets lost in the math. But I think after you explore these few things, it will only be natural to want to see what else he's done.

Eno is another one to explore completely, but that is a whole 'nuther thread.

zag · Post by **zag** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:53 am

& another question dogs_pigs_n_sheep, what Robert Fripp solo album do you suggest??

Thanks in advance

Alexander[/quote]

- absolutely Exposure, it`s colourful and `eavy.
zag

SomeGhostsStepOut · Post by **SomeGhostsStepOut** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:13 pm

On to Fripp. First, if you want to start with solo, go with Exposure

All right, I'll check it out. Thanks again.

Anna-Roza · Post by **Anna-Roza** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:27 pm

Hooray! Here it is!

The only problem is I have already written nearly as many posts about KC as about PF on this Forum... Quarrelling about "Discipline" album, Adrian Belew's and John Wetton's voice, Tony Levin's bass guitar, and of course famous or infamous ego of "Fripp the Great", and so on...

But I'll watch it anyway!

My favourite album is, as I've already mentioned, "Larks Tongues in Aspic"... I love it...
And all the others, too...

Anna-Roza · Post by **Anna-Roza** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:34 am

Has any of you already heard the new CD by KC (or rather by "ProjeKct"), "ProjeKct One, Jazz Cafe Suite"? It is Fripp-Gunn-Levin-Bruford (without Adrian Belew) concert from 1997.
I haven't yet and I wonder it is worth buying. I mean, DisciplineGlobalMobile releases so many records a year (KC's "official bootlegs" and so on), that it is impossible to have all of them...

By the way - what do you think about ProjeKcts? Some people hate it...

Anna-Roza · Post by **Anna-Roza** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:56 pm

Heikki, yes, you got the point with that "funky fingers" - one of my musician friends was also convinced it must have been played like that. But I've seen two or three live versions, and he played it with normal four-string

(that means it IS a special song - ordinary bass at last

). I can't understand either how did he manage...
Now I'm getting more and more fascinated by Trey Gunn, after seeing him live and listening to his solo stuff and that amazing J.S. Bach arrangements for acoustic guitars and Chapman Stick on "The Bridge Between" album... Wow... The album is signed by The Robert Fripp String Quintet, but, in fact, it's nearly all Trey Gunn... Great job he does, the only problem is he plays in a very delicate way, so sometimes it is too silent... Not the way the funky Levin or the agressive Wetton used to do...
I strongly suggest visiting his official site: http://www.treygunn.com There are some mp3s to download, completely amazing

And I was in shock when I started to read his diaries there - extremely intelligent and witty man, not only interested in music (like Robert Fripp is

), but open for all kinds of art - and not only art... And has a true talent for writing...
God, I think I should propose to him...

Heikki · Post by **Heikki** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:08 am

Trey Gunn's Third Star was great - an added bonus is that there's Alice singing on the title track. That was probably a thank you, since Trey Gunn played on Alice's album. TG is sure a great player, too bad the high end of his stick work got buried in the mix in Helsinki. During that gig I really loved the "ProjeKct" pieces, where I could hear what & how he really played.

But still I like that 4 cd live box from 1973-74 (Great Deceiver, IIRC) best. What a band! Crimson is essentially a live band.

Strange as it may seem, IMO Fripp's best playing is not on his own or Crimson's albums. He's a really amazing guest guitarist, as anybody with Bowie's Heroes or Scary Monsters can hear.

Anna-Roza · Post by **Anna-Roza** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:21 am

Heikki wrote:TG is sure a great player, too bad the high end of his stick work got buried in the mix in Helsinki.

I don't know why, but it usually happens to him... Sound engineers seem not to care so much as they cared for Adrian Belew or Robert Fripp. And sometimes it sounds like the stick was treated like a normal bass, that it definitely isn't. As I stated above - his way of playing is so delicate and, let's say, elegant, that he must be well mixed...

Heikki wrote:During that gig I really loved the "ProjeKct" pieces, where I could hear what & how he really played.

Yes, I just have got "ProjeKct One - Live at the Jazz Cafe" album, and it's great. This is the one with two bass players and only one guitar (RF)

Heikki wrote:Crimson is essentially a live band.

Yes

!!! And playing live helps them creating music, I suppose. I don't think only about improvisations... Just compare 'The ConstruKction of Light" album, that was entirely born in the studio, and is... hmmm.... not good, quite boring, lacks life and power, and "The Power to Believe", that was born during their tours in 2002! It's amazing, heavy and very sincere.

Heikki wrote:Strange as it may seem, IMO Fripp's best playing is not on his own or Crimson's albums. He's a really amazing guest guitarist, as anybody with Bowie's Heroes or Scary Monsters can hear.

Maybe because playing with KC or solo he uses quite the similar technics and structures all the time, so you can think his abilities are somehow limited to them... It's quite easy to make a parody of KC's Fripp, his sound is so recognizable...
And when playing with different people, he tries many different technics and moods. He is also able - and I can really appreciate it - to stay in the background when he's not the most important person.

I must say I also love what he did for Peter Gabriel (well, you now that already

), David Sylvian (

), Peter Hammill, John Paul Jones (fantastic "Thunderthief" album

), and, last but not least, Brian Eno ("Here Come the Warm Jets" is my favourite

; Fripp must have had lots of fun playing for example on "Baby's on Fire"

)

Heikki · Post by **Heikki** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:24 am

I gave my brother The Essential Fripp & Eno a few years ago. Nice strange music. Really pushing the limits of music. Star Trekkers of rock - going boldly where no man has been before.