In the Beechwoods

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Chris Moise
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Post by Chris Moise » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:08 am

professor frogmorton wrote:
First titled Snowing and later Matilda Mother
First titled In the Beechwoods and later Milky Way
First titled Old Woman with a Casket and later Scream Thy Last Scream
First titled Living Alone and later I Never Lied to You

And possibly, the song titled She was a Millionaire was changed by Syd to the title Opel.
The lyric content of Opel doesn’t seem to be much about a girl who was a millionaire, but it has been stated that while recording the instrumental Millionaire in 1970, that Syd Barrett was humming or singing the end section of Opel off mike. Why do this if it’s not the same song?
There is no evidence that Snowing has anything to do with Matilda. We don't even know if Snowing was a Syd song. All we know is it's on a setlist from a '66 gig. We also don't know that Scream was originally Old Woman With A Casket. It's listed as Scream on the EMI paperwork, Waters calls it Old Woman on the Star Club tape and Melody Maker referred to it as Old Woman. I think you are really reaching with Beechwoods/Milky Way.

I didn't say that Millionaire and Opel were the same song. They clearly weren't. Andrew King recites a few lines from She Was A Millionaire in the Random Precision book and the lyrics are of course different than the Opel lyrics. I think Syd just cannibalized the chorus to Millionaire for Opel..

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arnold crow
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Post by arnold crow » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:29 am

Where did you read that !! you mean in Random Precision Andrew King recites some lyrics from she was a millionaire? are you sure about that?..i never read such a thing..yes there is a mention about syd singing of mic the lyrics of Opel but beside that..nothing ..can u please tell me what page is that? If i'm wrong can you post the lyrics here? i'm curious to know...but i think you might mistake millionaire with another tune...oh..know that i think about it,,yes i think i read some part of the lyrics somewhere but i'm not sure it was from that book?

I don't understand what... In the beechwoods have something to do with Milky way..it's like day and night to me...it's not even the same cords..in the mix made before..you do find that at some point the two songs could go toghether well but that doesn't mean anything..in fact i'm sure other songs can be fited toghether well even if they have no connection at all..it's like the new Beatles album..LOVE..they mixed the vocals of within without you with Tomorrow never knows and it goes toghether perfectly!! Know if someone comes to me and say..that tomorrow never knows was an early version of within without you? Not at all!! it fits well..it doesn't mean it is the same song at all!!

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arnold crow
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Post by arnold crow » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:53 am

Oups never mind!! i found the lyrics you were talking about..it's in page 55 ..my apologies...

She was a millionaire
they had some time to spare
and they had a lovely time together.

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professor frogmorton
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by professor frogmorton » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:43 am

maybe now is a good time for Pink Floyd and EMI to release a version of "In the Beechwoods/Milky Way" as bonus track to a special edition Saucerful of Secrets, along with Vegetable Man and Scream Thy Last Scream


curious if anyone is enthusiastic about this In the Beechwoods/ Milky Way vocal mix idea?

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professor frogmorton
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by professor frogmorton » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:26 am

BBC live version "Point me at the Sky" from December 1968...not studio version

"hey Eugene look at the screen and it's goodbye
let's get paid in the Milky Way, and it's goodbye
goodbye goodbye goodbye goodbye
leave me in charge of the Milky Way and it's goodbye"

this what the concluding lyrics sound like to my ears

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bpmolder
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by bpmolder » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:08 am

Alright. I'm on this. I will come up with a way to mash up Milky Way and In The Beechwoods. I can quantize them to make them match beat for beat and can attempt to pull the vocal part off of Milky Way. Even if it doesn't exactly fit the key, I can do some subtle pitch correction on the vocals. I should have something by this weekend at the soonest. I will keep you all posted.

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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by nosaj » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:55 pm

Nice bpmolder!!

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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by bpmolder » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:51 am

Just to give anyone who is interested an update, I am completely swamped and haven't had the time to finish this yet. That, combined with bullshit I have had to deal with from someone I thought I could trust to help but ended up bailing on me. So I have blocked aside time this weekend to do it. I will let you all know when it is finished.

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qjamesfloyd
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by qjamesfloyd » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:50 am

Any luck yet bpmolder?

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nosaj
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by nosaj » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:45 pm

Yeah, bp, wot up?

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crowman
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by crowman » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:29 am

They do have common elements, such as the syncopated rhythm and opening chord progression (although Milky Way is in E major and Beechwoods in C major), but they have distinctive differences as well, such as the minor change in Milky Way.

I've wondered if In The Beechwoods could be an early version of Swan Lee. The name "In The Beechwoods" seems to fit with the story of the Indian boy travelling through the jungle, and Swan Lee was one of the first things Syd recorded after leaving Floyd. There are variations in the music (not unusual when Syd was recording), but the lyrics of Swan Lee I think could fit with the Beechwoods backing track, in particular the "The land in silence stands" refrain.

And speaking of Opel, has anyone noticed the similarity between the "I'm crying" section of Opel and Crying Song from More? They were both recorded around the same time...

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professor frogmorton
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by professor frogmorton » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:03 am

Crowman...Obviously you've put some thought in to the question of whether In the Beechwoods could be also a Barrett solo track under another title. My initial thought was, before examining the Milky Way similarity, also that Swan Lee would fit into the Beechwoods track quite well. Especially noting the similarity of verse parts in the finished Swan Lee. There are some very strong similarities in the beginning of each verse, the two seem to fit pretty well, but then become very different....

However, I love the idea of a bouncy English 60's psych tune about Native Americans and the wild, it would have a complete strangeness about it, and would make sense that Syd got to add his sax and banjo to the tune in a solo effort, assuming hypothetically that Beechwoods is the track he had in mind for those instruments....you know, the story of Barrett's desire for sax, backup singers, banjo? which was scoffed at by the others. The thought is very tantalizing, a free jazz piano and sax solo in the middle of an english pop tale similar to John Smith and Pocahontas with grand organ and ripping guitar and old fashion banjo to boot. High wierdness.

The Syd backing track Silas Lang, which is buried in the final Swan lee ,with the sax and banjo has some tricky differences from the Beechwoods track..the intro and outro, are hinted at in Beechwoods with the long organ notes, but when compared to how the outro of Silas Lang is buried in the final Swan Lee track some questions arise about how the lyrics of Swan Lee would even fit in Beechwoods...too many stanzas if I recollect and the chorus does'nt fit at all, unless it were repeated more times in the Beechwoods version, but then the song length would have to change dramatically and changing the tempo throws everything off. I had trouble getting them to fit without pretty major structural changes..including lyric changes. All that being said, they could still be very different versions of the same song.

You are right that the key/chords are different in Milky Way and Beechwoods, but rythmically the two songs are nearly identical and equally as similar in exactness of duration and lyric placement. It is difficult for me to think of that as coincidence. I cannot be 100% cetain that they are the same song, but I find it likely, at least structurally and also Barrett recorded his Milky Way towards the end of the Barrett album on the same day as he attempted Millionaire(she was a Millionaire)an old Floyd tune. Which would fit the logic that he was attempting to record old songs as he was running out of new ones. songs he had'nt gotten a chance to release with Pink Floyd.

I can't imagine why a perfectly fine take of Milky Way in 1970 would not have been worked up further and included on the Barrett LP. I guess there could be many reasons, but maybe one reason being that it would create legal problems, also being a Pink Floyd tune. The same goes for Opel on Madcap, which is another song that I cannot understand not being released at the time it was recorded. When scraping together a record of scrappy tunes that are being filled out with other's arrangements, why leave off these two excellent songs. Bob Dylan Blues being left off makes sense, the guys did'nt want Syd in trouble over what could be percieved by some as an attack on Dylan. Perhaps I'm just a loon. It would be nice to have some of these questions answered by the parties involved. Simple clarification of song titles would resolve a lot of this speculation.

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crowman
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by crowman » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:11 am

The links between Beechwoods and Milky Way are fascinating, but the songs are still a fair way from being a 100% match. For the first line they are exact, although in different keys. The "Oh tell me please just to give you a squeeze" line in MW doesn't go on to match the corresponding section in Beechwoods, but the lyrics could still perhaps fit with the descending C-Bflat-A-G-F-F-G progression of Beechwoods, albeit with a different melody. The "If I met you" line in MW, however, goes with a minor chord change that isn't present in Beechwoods, and Beechwoods' choppy chorus doesn't seem like anything in Milky Way at all.

With Swan Lee the same choppy rhythm is present with more variations in the chord progression, but as with MW the first couple of lines still fit fairly well. Personally, I can envisage more of Swan Lee's lyrics with Beechwoods - "The chief blew smoke rings two by two" could fit with the descending progression, while "The land in silence stands" works well with the choppy chorus section. Having said that, it's impossible to fit all of the lyrics to Swan Lee with the music of Beechwoods as we have it.

But then Syd was renowned for trying different musical progressions for his songs (the three different versions of It Is Obvious recorded in 15 minutes are a classic example) so the variations heard in SL and MW in no way rule them out from being Beechwoods. And songs do evolve over time - look at One In A Million and Corporal Clegg. The other reasons I lean towards Swan Lee are the title (In The Beechwoods just seems like the perfect title for the adventures through the jungle of young Swan Lee) and the fact that it was one of the first songs Syd did when going solo. It sounds like a fair bit of work went into the Beechwoods backing track, so it would make sense that he would try to finish the song in some way when he left the band.

The fact that Beechwoods was never finished is possibly a big clue too. Perhaps he was struggling to get his lyrics right for the music, and when it was abandoned he reworked elements from it into both Swan Lee and Milky Way.

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professor frogmorton
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by professor frogmorton » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:06 am

I agree that both songs have signifigant similarities to In the Beechwoods. One additional similarity between Swan Lee and In the Beechwoods, is that Barrett felt the need for an atmospheric intro and outro in Swan Lee, as does the Pink Floyd Beechwoods track, albeit much longer on both ends of the song. The slowing outro of Swan Lee does seem like a fairly signifigant characteristic of that song.

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professor frogmorton
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Re: In the Beechwoods

Post by professor frogmorton » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:10 pm

Maybe the Saucerful immersion box will answer this question for us.

Time for a 'Free as a Bird' attempt at 'In the Beechwoods/Milky Way'