Syd Barrett at Shine on session

[Wolfpack]

One of the band members, and noone can ever remember exactly who, was able to eventually discern his true identity. Roger, after reckognizing, kind of teased Rick to test him, and kept asking him if he knows who that is and kept him in suspense, before finally revealing to him. David was then gotten to with the information ("bloody hell! That's Syd!", David would recall as his reaction decades later) Syd's appearance got at least two of the band members really emotional.

I've read that Roger was in tears. So, I don't see how he could have teased Rick at the same time.

Syd made a comment "are you ready for me to put some guitar on" and commented on their incessant replaying of the Shine On track, "why bother, you've heared it once already".

Finally, after years, I found a reason why Pink Floyd didn't let Syd play with them. In 1964, when The Beatles temporarily had to tour without Ringo, they didn't choose Pete Best. John Lennon reportedly has said that it would give Pete the feeling they were taking him back. So, maybe Pink Floyd didn't want Syd to play with them, because it would confuse him more than it would help.
And if Pink Floyd would have let Syd play, fans would have complained they were just cashing on him.

I cannot remember Nicks quote on his rememberance of this encounter, probably because I don't really care for his point of view and imput on Pink Floyd history(One quote of Nicks, "I don't remember being overcome with compassion", by what Syd was going through.)

This is from the DVD with the documentary on Pink Floyd and Syd. It seems to me that Mason is talking in past tense and having a diffulty to admit his ignorance.
The people of Pink Floyd were young in 1967.

Then without warning, Syd at some point briefly after, just hastilly stood up and said "I've got to be going, I've got to be getting back to cambridge"

I've understood there was a party that evening, because of Gilmour being engaged or wed. Syd joined that party and wasn't recognized by others.

There was then an anecdote telling about Syd approaching different studio personnel asking for a ride, and one dodging Syd to get out of giving him one.

Then Pink Floyd could (and should) have given him a taxi ride.

[Flying pig437]

I wonder how he got in in the first place.

[GilmourGirl]

It's Barrett, man. Who WOULDN'T have let him in? He created the Floyd. And it seems like only Rick and The Gilmour remembered that throughout their whole career. So what if he was mentally unstable at the time, by right that was HIS band. Always will be. The Gilmour stepped in at the right ime. Rick and Nicky couldn't have carried that band on their own.

[Hudini]

And it seems like only Rick and The Gilmour remembered that throughout their whole career.

As far as I can remember, Roger made quite a few references to Syd during his career. During his "In the Flesh" tour, songs like "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" and "Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun" were accompanied by projected images of Syd Barrett, and he was the one to dedicate "Wish You Were Here" to Syd at the Live 8 show. Guilt or something else, I don't know, but he surely didn't forget about Syd.

On the other hand, I don't recall Rick mentioning Syd in any interview apart from the ones in the documentary films. And I could hardly say he (or Nick, for that matters) had any career outside Pink Floyd rather then very occasional projects.

And why a definite article in front of Mr. Gilmour's last name?

[GilmourGirl]

Oh come now it was sarcastic humor. This is merely my opinion.

Waters exploited Syd pure and simple. He has seemed to be very envious of Barrett. His "dedications" and projection shows aren't credible enough to me to show that he genuinely liked Barrett and he has stated "Piper" was an embarrassment. Musically its been the Gilmour-led Floyd that has been true to Barretts vision. Never mind screen images and what not, just musically. Rick also stayed true to his vision and he played a key role in "Piper". Its that they kept Syds vision of the music alive.

I call him The Gilmour because there is not and never will be a guitarist like him. He stands alone.

Well maybe he stands alongside The Slowhand.

[Hudini]

1. Oh come now it was sarcastic humor. This is merely my opinion.

2. Waters exploited Syd pure and simple.

3. he has stated "Piper" was an embarrassment.

4. Musically its been the Gilmour-led Floyd that has been true to Barretts vision. Never mind screen images and what not, just musically.

5. Rick also stayed true to his vision and he played a key role in "Piper".

1. I didn't see anything sarcastic in there, sorry. And I respect your opinion. It's just that I also happen to have mine, and they are different. There's nothing abnormal about it.

2. How? As far as I can tell, he didn't thrive to make money on Syd's legacy, and his tributes to a former bandmate weren't addressed at commercial success. The fact that he liked Syd or not has nothing to do with the fact that he in fact did a tribute to Syd. In my opinion, Waters' backscreen projection on "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was more appropriate then the images of hippies smoking giant joints projected during the same song on "Pulse" tour. But then again it's only my opinion. One could say Waters used the image of Syd (note: one image) only to trigger deeper emotions in the audience, and if that only was his motive, he succeeded. But I doubt that he saw Syd just as a vehicle for creating emotion, he's way smarter than that. Anyway, you can't deny the fact Waters did make a tribute to Syd. Whether you like it or not, is a completely different thing.

3. Actually, he stated that he's not proud of "Take Up Thy Stethoscope And Walk". I can't find the actual source, but I eventually will. Generalizing like that, you could say that Waters stated Pink Floyd was a disappointment.

4. How? I'm able to abstract screen images, lasers and fancy stage equipment and focus in on music itself, but I just can't find a parallel between simple, mostly acoustic songs composed with great style (I'm abstracting the lyrics too) and overproduced, half-baked ideas, with layers upon layers of synthesizers, sequencers, backing vocals and sound samples. What's so "true to Barrett's vision" on "The Division Bell", per instance? I can't seem to picture the link.

5. Well, the only person who played a key role in "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" was Barrett himself. The rest of the guys were equally important, or unimportant, for that matters. And if there's any Floyd who continued Barrett's vision, it certainly wasn't Rick. Yes, the publishers did rely on him to write the singles after Syd's departure, but his musical style and the way he wrote songs were distinctly different from Barrett's and became even more different as time went by. By the time Rick began pursuing a career (if that's what it's called) outside Floyd, his songwriting changed completely from what he himself did back in 1967/8, not to mention Syd. "Broken China" per instance bears very little resemblance with anything Rick did with Pink Floyd, even in the late 80s and early 90s, and it's diametrically opposed to "Syd Barrett's vision".

IMHO.

[danielcaux]

Well, the only person who played a key role in "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" was Barrett himself. The rest of the guys were equally important, or unimportant, for that matters

I agree with you on all other points except this one. I think that in PATGOD Rick was slightly more important in creating the sound of the album than Nick and Roger. Although sometimes I have the feeling that it was Waters the actual "brains" and driving force behind such space jams and psych freak outs like Interstellar or Pow R. Toc H, even more so than Barrett himself. Perhaps because after leaving the Floyd Barrett never really came with another space song or freak out as good as those in Piper, while Waters alone composed Set The Controls and most of Eugene, and he holds credit for Stethoscope... but then what makes Stethoscope a good song* is Barrett's guitar work on it, ....although it's Waters who gives a solid bass groove and structure for the others to improvise over. So it's kind of difficult really, to know who was responsible for their sound and end musical product.

I have always wonder how the album would have sounded have it been a Barrett solo record? More acoustic? Perhaps all songs would have been recorded Scarecrow style? Or would he have directed other musicians (from the Canterbury scene perhaps?) to make it sound similar to what we ultimately got?


* Yeah, most people don't realize the song is basically another great "interstellar" jam, just with silly verses bookending it instead of the little red book riffs of IO.

[GilmourGirl]

I respect your opinion as well. I like hearing others' opinions on this subject. Thank you for a good debate. I'll just leave it at that.

[Hudini]

Well, the only person who played a key role in "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" was Barrett himself. The rest of the guys were equally important, or unimportant, for that matters

I agree with you on all other points except this one. I think that in PATGOD Rick was slightly more important in creating the sound of the album than Nick and Roger. Although sometimes I have the feeling that it was Waters the actual "brains" and driving force behind such space jams and psych freak outs like Interstellar or Pow R. Toc H, even more so than Barrett himself.

Revising what I wrote, I must agree that Rick and Roger were also very present (in lack of a more suitable word) on the record. Roger is the one who keeps the jams together (and, yes, I also think "Take Up Thy Stethoscope..." is a jam like "Interstellar Overdrive"), and Rick is the one who colours the arrangements with his organs, and his voice. But neither one of them is as half as important as Syd, and that has to be taken as a fact.

Thank you for a good debate. I'll just leave it at that.

Please don't. I'd really like to hear your opinion on why the Gilmour-era Floyd is true to Syd Barrett's vision. I don't want to argue or mock you, I'd really like to hear the explanation to it. Thank you in advance.

[Flying pig437]

Oh come now it was sarcastic humor. This is merely my opinion.

he has stated "Piper" was an embarrassment. .

He's also said he'd rather slit his throat than play AHM suite again. Doesn't mean he doesn't like the people who made it...well at the time he said it...inc. himself.

[GilmourGirl]

It isn't a question of whether he liked Barrett or not, he just seemed envious of Barrett. Or perhaps he was wanting all creative control. Barrett had stated that he wanted to add female background vocalists and saxophone and well lo-and-behold we had Dark Side of the Moon. Beautifully engineered and of course Waters is a brilliant writer. Forge ahead to Final Cut vs AMLOR. Which had more of Barretts vision?

I'm not claiming to be a Barrett/Floyd expert. I'm going by statements Barrett has allegedly made regarding the direction of the Floyd, and more so I'm going by what I hear in their music. What I hear in the Gilmour-led Floyd is a bit of Barrett's genious. The Gilmour knew he was a genious which is why I hear it incorporated in the Gilmour Floyd. Waters, well, I enjoyed TFC as much as any other Floyd album. I remember when it came out. I thought, "Wow what a departure from anything else they had done!" up to then. But in the end, yea, Gilmour kept the Barrett vision alive. And thankfully he got Rick back and Nicky stuck around. We may not like what Nicky has to say much, but to me he is an important member of the Floyd just as much as the others. I still remember losing my virginity to his beats on the "Time" intro for goodness sake. To me that makes him very important haha!

If I have typos I'm sorry its because I do this from my droid. I don't have a home pc.

[GilmourGirl]

One more thing, I've been playing the shit out of Barrett lately. Well this eve I played Phil Spectors first band, and other music he produced. It struck me that what a pity he and Barrett didn't hook up. You can only imagine Spector producing Barrett. What an absolute dream that would've been.

[Hudini]

1. It isn't a question of whether he liked Barrett or not, he just seemed envious of Barrett.

2. Forge ahead to Final Cut vs AMLOR. Which had more of Barretts vision?

3. We may not like what Nicky has to say much

4. I still remember losing my virginity to his beats on the "Time" intro for goodness sake

1. Again, whether Roger Waters liked Syd Barrett or not, and whether he was envious of Syd Barrett or not doesn't change the fact that he did make references and tributes to Syd Barrett throughout his career. You can't deny that simply because you believe them two didn't like each other. That would almost be like saying "no, Waters didn't play at Live 8 because he doesn't like Gilmour". The fact that they had bad blood between them doesn't change the other fact that they did settle the quarrel for the sake of the show... And then again Waters was the one to dedicate "Wish You Were Here" to Syd Barrett at that show. Whether he was envious or not, you can't say that didn't happen.

2. OK, now I am begging you to explain me that "Barrett's vision" you keep talking about. Because I simply fail to see any trace of influence of Syd Barrett on any of these two albums, and if I were to choose I believe I'd be closer to choosing "The Final Cut" as more true to the original Pink Floyd vision, drawing parallels to early Roger Waters songs such as "If" or "Grantchester Meadows", which were obvious (and not really successful) attempts to re-create Syd Barrett's style.

3. For someone who doesn't say much at all, musically speaking, I can't say that I like what he has to say or not, however I do like it when he does say anything eventually. Musically speaking.

4. I wouldn't know what it feels like. I lost mine to some shit I never heard again, or haven't noticed if I did.

[oldperfume]

I know I'm Waaaaaaaaaaay late on this......and I've seen this picture of bald-headed Syd
many times over the years. The other day I put a pic of what Syd looked like back in the day, from 65,66,67 & this 1975 shot. The bald Syd is 29 years old...29 YEARS OLD!!!
He looks like he's much older, like he's been through hell & back. (And he HAD been!)
It's amazing to me that anybody can go from what he looked like in '67 to that pic, receding hairline or not. His eyes, it was ALWAYS his eyes & in that pic he looks 1000 years old.
Just an opinion...

[GilmourGirl]

Meeh weight gain makes one look older more than any receding hairline or buzzcut. Its his body that made him look older. Once he got himself straight he was a nice-looking guy once again.

Hmmm. I've been told I look good for 44. Maybe if I drop 60 pounds I could pass for at least 25? Hahahahahahaha!