Rhamadam - How good is it ?

[danielcaux]

Don't you find it a little strange how Rhamadam doesn't sound like ANYTHING Syd ever done, before or after, musically and production wise? It may be because of the new mix, but this sounds a lot more like mid 70s Zappa to my ears than late 60s Barrett. It's a lot more looser and erratic a jam, but the actual sound is more similar to something like The Ocean Is The Ultimate Solution than to Nick's Boogie or Interstellar Overdrive or even Lanky IMO. I wonder how much input Syd really had in this recording.

[Wolfpack]

I wonder how much input Syd really had in this recording.

He lets the other musicians do most of the work. He lets the other musicians wait for him to please take the lead and give a direction.
His input is the guitar work that never really comes to surface.

[pinksmile]

I have finally heard Rhamadam and it sounds very similar (to me anyway) to the type of stuff Miles Davis was doing around the same time. Take a listen to the Miles Davis album Bitches Brew and you will no doubt see the similarities. Bitches Brew came out around 1969/70 and Rhamadam may well have been influenced by this album. If you like Rhamadam then get yourself a copy of Bitches Brew, you'll love it.

[danielcaux]

Personally I do not see any appeal in Rhamadan. It is just noise to me. However, the rest of the album is excellent.

Being familiar with the Barrett catalog for quite some time, Rhamadan is definitively the highlight from this release for me (followed by Matilda's new mix and the inclusion of the Here I Go complete ending solo). Too bad they didn't include the track on the actual disc, or at least release it in a lossless format online, because well I understand that it is kinda difficult to cram a 20 minute obscure improv into a 80 minute best of CD, but releasing one lossless track on the net is not rocket science at all. Anyway, it really surpassed my expectations, I thought it was going to be just congas and bongos and noises for 20 minutes, but it has some interesting sounds going on, mainly those piercing keyboard blurps and the weird stacatto mellotron around the middle, and also some nice grooves created by the bass and percussion interplay. It reminds me a lot of the more abstract parts of AHM and Echoes. Probably this is the closer we will ever get to actually hear what was the sound that he had in mind for the Floyd to go after Saucerful; it does sound like a natural evolution from the things they where trying on the title track of that album and the "bridge" of Jugband Blues. Perhaps a couple of female saxophonist would have complete the picture?

I'm glad they finally released, a very interesting historic document.

[zag]

Being familiar with the Barrett catalog for quite some time, Rhamadan is definitively the highlight from this release for me (followed by Matilda's new mix and the inclusion of the Here I Go complete ending solo).

my thoughts exactly. I do wonder why "If It´s In You" have to be there, uncutted as it is. What´s the point in it ? Dave´s bad conscience ?

[danielcaux]

Being familiar with the Barrett catalog for quite some time, Rhamadan is definitively the highlight from this release for me (followed by Matilda's new mix and the inclusion of the Here I Go complete ending solo).

my thoughts exactly. I do wonder why "If It´s In You" have to be there, uncutted as it is. What´s the point in it ? Dave´s bad conscience ?

I was thinking about that yesterday, and my hypothesis is that perhaps Gilmour is actually fond of the track, as it is, because it was one of the tracks he originally produced for Madcap, along with She Took a Long Cold Look, also present on this comp. I personally think those two tracks were rushed jobs made in the last day of recording; the actual songs had potential, but they weren't able, or didn't want, to work much on them.

The problem with that hypothesis is that Gilmour also produced Golden Hair and Long Gone (and even Feel too), which in my opinion are superior recordings production-wise. So who knows... perhaps it was Roger who produced those tracks?

The one thing I like is that they fixed the volume level of She Took A Long Cold Look, on Madcap it was really overblown compared with the rest of the album tracks. The page turning didn't bother me at all, but this new edit is nice too, more "profesional".

[sashwap]

my thoughts exactly. I do wonder why "If It´s In You" have to be there, uncutted as it is. What´s the point in it ? Dave´s bad conscience ?

I was thinking about that yesterday, and my hypothesis is that perhaps Gilmour is actually fond of the track, as it is, because it was one of the tracks he originally produced for Madcap, along with She Took a Long Cold Look, also present on this comp. I personally think those two tracks were rushed jobs made in the last day of recording; the actual songs had potential, but they weren't able, or didn't want, to work much on them.

The problem with that hypothesis is that Gilmour also produced Golden Hair and Long Gone (and even Feel too), which in my opinion are superior recordings production-wise. So who knows... perhaps it was Roger who produced those tracks?

The one thing I like is that they fixed the volume level of She Took A Long Cold Look, on Madcap it was really overblown compared with the rest of the album tracks. The page turning didn't bother me at all, but this new edit is nice too, more "profesional".

for what it's worth, i'm glad they included this bare, stripped-down track. acoustic songs like "dark globe" and "if it's in you" are as much a part of syd's solo output as more produced tracks. "if it's in you" is quintessentially syd, pure and unfiltered. it's one of his catchiest songs and contains a lot of great lyrical imagery. it's one of my favorites!

[dgsyd1]

I have finally heard Rhamadam and it sounds very similar (to me anyway) to the type of stuff Miles Davis was doing around the same time. Take a listen to the Miles Davis album Bitches Brew and you will no doubt see the similarities. Bitches Brew came out around 1969/70 and Rhamadam may well have been influenced by this album. If you like Rhamadam then get yourself a copy of Bitches Brew, you'll love it.

It reminds me more of certain parts of In A Silent Way for some reason. it wasn't an influence on Syd though, as "Rhamadam" was recorded in May 1968, whilst In A Silent Way, and Bitches Brew didn't come along until 1969.

[J Ed]

Miles's music had been getting progressively more random sounding throughout the existence of the 2nd Great Quintet, and producer Teo Macero had been playing a more active role cutting and pasting chunks of recording sessions into audiocollages that made up the final release
so the prior album, Filles des Kilamanjaro, anticipates Silent Way as much as Silent Way anticipates Bitches Brew though its lesserknown
I dont recall it sounding anywhere near so random as Rhamadam however

I do for some reason keep assuming Syd listened to all that stuff, probably moreso than the other Floyds, but dont know where I got that fixed idea from
his sister when asked once said Syd listened to Charlie Parker and Thelonious Monk, but I think she meant in his latter years
I dont know if theres any evidence what Syd listened to while he was still actively making music

[nosaj]

I like it!! I bet I will listen to it more than Metallic Spheres in the years ahead.

But, 156 kbps mp3? Really?

Personally, I don't know if there had to be an influence on this song, in the vein of, "I was listening to so-and-so, lets do a jam like..."

[danielcaux]

Perhaps it was just a case of the Jugband Blues aproach: get some competent musicians and tell them to do whatever they like!

[Idisaffect]

. The page turning didn't bother me at all, .

The page turning is one of my favorite moments in the album. I love that song. The fact that it was so fresh that Barrett had to turn the page in the middle of it just really appeals to me. It's funny as hell, too. It's like parody. Maybe it is parody.

I'd imagine the influence for Rhamadam was your basic psychedelic jam band circa 1968.
I don't think Barrett brought in charts for the musicians. (As if!) Joe Zawinul and Wayne Shorter had written music for their compositions on Bitches Brew and earlier albums. Rhamadam probably "just happened".

[zag]

I was thinking about that yesterday, and my hypothesis is that perhaps Gilmour is actually fond of the track, as it is, because it was one of the tracks he originally produced

but why bother to clean up Octobus and others and still leave that "bad start" in The Introduction, does that "error" really make it any better or more fragile than as it is.
As if Dave wants us to belive that Syd was just passé and impossible to work with. I have no doupt that both Waters and Gilmour felt that too. However Malcolm Jones (produced better sessions imo), Robert Wyatt, Hugh Hopper and others said Syd was an easy going type, even Jerry Shirley noticed that Syd was sometimes ha ha having a laugh. A madcap indeed.

I don´t know about you guys but I feel somewhat uncomfortable when I listen re-arranged Octobus, must be the age thing

[tebrookes]

I agree, Zag, the 'fake' false start in Octopus re-mix is cheap. The track didn't need fiddling with. It's perfect as it is.

[Wolfpack]

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