Pink Floyd - The Division Bell

[Keith Jordan]

This thread is to discuss Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon and is linked to from the Pink Floyd Discography section.

Feel free to discuss the album!



01. Cluster One
02. What Do You Want From Me
03. Poles Apart
04. Marooned
05. Great Day For Freedom
06. Wearing The Inside Out
07. Take It Back
08. Coming Back To Life
09. Keep Talking
10. Lost For Words
11. High Hopes

[Real Pink in the Inside]

My girlfriend loves this one, so I have had to listen to it more often than you would expect. It's really not THAT bad, but it's certainly not a Pink Floyd album without Roger Waters' lyrics, songwriting and vocals.

[moom]

but it's certainly not a Pink Floyd album without Roger Waters' lyrics, songwriting and vocals.

But this has David and Rick as songwriters and singers (Rick does his first lead vocal on a PF album in a loooooooooooooong while!), and them both with Nick as musicians! Remember Any Color You Like, credited to all but Roger? That was still Pink Floyd

[Real Pink in the Inside]

but it's certainly not a Pink Floyd album without Roger Waters' lyrics, songwriting and vocals.

But this has David and Rick as songwriters and singers (Rick does his first lead vocal on a PF album in a loooooooooooooong while!), and them both with Nick as musicians! Remember Any Color You Like, credited to all but Roger? That was still Pink Floyd

I look at each album as a whole, not on a song-by-song basis. TDB fails the litmus test.

[moom]

I was not talking about that.

I only commented that without Roger it still can be Pink Floyd, and in my personal opinion , the album proves it. That's it.

[Real Pink in the Inside]

I was not talking about that.

I only commented that without Roger it still can be Pink Floyd, and in my personal opinion , the album proves it. That's it.

Who wrote most of Pink Floyd's music? Roger Waters.
Who wrote most of Pink Floyd's lyrics? Roger Waters.
Who sung most of Pink Floyd's songs? Roger Waters.
Who is Pink Floyd's bassist? Roger Waters, not Guy Pratt.
Who is missing from The Division Bell? Roger Waters.

The Wall is the final Pink Floyd album that features Waters/Gilmour/Wright/Mason, the songwriting of two or more of these individuals, the vocals of two or more of these individuals, and lyrics by Roger Waters. As such, I believe it is the final real deal Pink Floyd album. It's most certainly not Pink Floyd without all four blokes, let alone without both the vocals of Waters/Gilmour along with Waters' lyrics and songwriting.

I rest my case.

Now please explain how an album missing Pink Floyd's top songwriter, top lyricist, top vocalist, and bassist can actually be a Pink Floyd album.

[Keith Jordan]

Many would argue that Pink Floyd stopped existing upon the departure of Syd Barrett, as he founded the band!

[snifferdog]

Pink Floyd is the name emblazoned on the cover. Since 1987, David and Nick have had the legal right to the name. Anything other than that is personal opinion.

It's not a bad album. It's more consistent than AMLOR and has plenty of input from Rick. I'm not much of a lyrics person so I've no strong opinions one way or another about Polly Samson's input. The one track I always skip is that godawful dirge A Great Day For Freedom. Always hated that one. I skip it on the Gdansk CD as well. I like High Hopes, though I realised the other day when I was driving that there are only two lines of melody in the entire song. One for the verses, one for the chorus. I think what attracts me to it is the instrumental at the end - it's wonderful.

[moom]

Who wrote most of Pink Floyd's music? Roger Waters.
Who wrote most of Pink Floyd's lyrics? Roger Waters.
Who sung most of Pink Floyd's songs? Roger Waters.
Who is Pink Floyd's bassist? Roger Waters, not Guy Pratt.
Who is missing from The Division Bell? Roger Waters.

The Wall is the final Pink Floyd album that features Waters/Gilmour/Wright/Mason, the songwriting of two or more of these individuals, the vocals of two or more of these individuals, and lyrics by Roger Waters. As such, I believe it is the final real deal Pink Floyd album. It's most certainly not Pink Floyd without all four blokes, let alone without both the vocals of Waters/Gilmour along with Waters' lyrics and songwriting.

I rest my case.

Now please explain how an album missing Pink Floyd's top songwriter, top lyricist, top vocalist, and bassist can actually be a Pink Floyd album.

1. Let's count percents. Even if David and Rick lose, then not by far.
2. Same.
3. Again, same, except Rick did not sing as much as even David.
4. For the last couple decades, he had been, before Live 8.
5. Here I could use my agreement with Keith. Syd is missed on most of their albums.
6. Roger was already the chief songwriter, except David's ideas got in the way sometimes. Let alone Rick and Nick. So is it not mostly Roger's baby, not whole band's!? It is, but the album still has Floydian feel to it thanks to David's guitar and Rick's keys, not Roger's bass, which belongs to rhythm section, not melody section. And before Dark Side, it had been mostly the sound that made them Floyd. All those albums from A Saucerful up to Obscured were mostly about sound. So, with the loss of Roger, they lost probably the best lyricist ever, BUT they did not lost their sound, and that had not been a big problem before Dark Side, had it!?

I rest my case. Shall we stop this offtopic sometime?

[Keith Jordan]

Anyway... the title bit on my Division Bell album on the side of the CD sleeve is upside down when the CD is the right way round! It has been printed upside down! Is this a mistake, a bad pressing or is it meant to be like that??

[Eclipse]

It is an excellent though very underrated album. The only true mistep in here would be Take it Back, which kind of ruins it for the simple fact it looks like an U2 cover. I'm not that fan of Coming Back to Life too. The other tracks rule though.

[Real Pink in the Inside]

Many would argue that Pink Floyd stopped existing upon the departure of Syd Barrett, as he founded the band!

I know you do not personally believe that, and are merely playing Devil's Advocate, so I shall play along

Actually, Roger and Nick founded the band. It was Roger who brought Rick and Syd on board. Syd came up with the name "The Pink Floyd Sound," which eventually became the "The Pink Floyd." After Syd's departure, they became exclusively known as "Pink Floyd" (Without the The), so they technically did change their name after he departed. With that said, after Syd's departure they were a group of young musicians trying to find their way. They changed things up from album to album, which eventually led to The Dark Side of the Moon, their major breakthrough album. Had they changed their name more drastically, instead of merely dropping the The from "The Pink Floyd," we would still be talking about their works from SOS through TDB; the only difference is we would be referring to them by another name.

Perhaps this summary will contrast the differences more starkly: In the late 1960s we had four young, aspiring musicians trying to find their way after losing their front man to mental illness. In the late 1980s we had three middle-aged musicians who had their day in the sun back in the 1970s, trying to make lots of money off what had become the brand name of Pink Floyd without their former front man, who rightfully felt the band was creatively spent. Clearly there is a big difference.

[Real Pink in the Inside]

1. Let's count percents. Even if David and Rick lose, then not by far.

While you are more than welcome to count percentage points and post those results on here, I think a brief glance at their catalog more than suffices. Even if you were to randomly pick 10 songs, I suspect that at least 5 of them were written solely by Waters with probably 4 of the remaining 5 involving Waters at some level (either written solely by him, or co-written with him and one or more of the other members).

2. Same.

Do you really think that David Gilmour and Richard Wright wrote nearly as many lyrics for Pink Floyd as Roger Waters?

Roger Waters wrote all of their lyrics from DSoTM through The Wall, and a plurality of their lyrics from SOS through DSoTM.

3. Again, same, except Rick did not sing as much as even David.

Funnily enough, we have counted percentage points in the vocals category. It has been shown that Roger Waters overwhelmingly sung most of Pink Floyd's songs (Approximately 50% of the band's vocals were by Waters, 33% for Gilmour, remainder for Barrett/Wright/Harper). Go here for further details: http://forum.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/vie ... lead+voice

5. Here I could use my agreement with Keith. Syd is missed on most of their albums.

See my response above.

6. Roger was already the chief songwriter, except David's ideas got in the way sometimes. Let alone Rick and Nick. So is it not mostly Roger's baby, not whole band's!? It is, but the album still has Floydian feel to it thanks to David's guitar and Rick's keys, not Roger's bass, which belongs to rhythm section, not melody section. And before Dark Side, it had been mostly the sound that made them Floyd. All those albums from A Saucerful up to Obscured were mostly about sound. So, with the loss of Roger, they lost probably the best lyricist ever, BUT they did not lost their sound, and that had not been a big problem before Dark Side, had it!?

Perhaps it SOUNDS LIKE Pink Floyd, but that does not mean it IS Pink Floyd. I refuse to consider something Pink Floyd if it does include Waters, Gilmour, Wright and Mason (All four, not just two or three of them). And obviously there is an extremely large hole when you're missing the guy who wrote all of the band's conceptual lyrics, and was also their chief songwriter and vocalist. Personally, I think The Division Bell is nothing more than a Bob Ezrin pop album that SOUNDS LIKE Pink Floyd. It was created by middle-aged musicians who had their day in the sun a long time ago. Their goal was to put out this record so that they could put on a grand tour that grosses millions and then some. They succeeded, but that does not mean this album is a real Pink Floyd album.

[snifferdog]

I dunno if this is the thread for arguing about whether it's a Pink Floyd record.

[Real Pink in the Inside]

I dunno if this is the thread for arguing about whether it's a Pink Floyd record.

The conversation pertains to the album in question. It's not like we're suddenly discussing the price of tea...