Roger Lip-Syncing: New Observation

[Yucateco]

Sure, they guy could do identical performances most of the time...but ALL of the time?

Nah...that's mechanical precision, there. Not human.

For Roger Waters to perform exactly identically in certain parts night after night while all other parts allow for "human variables," some sort of non-human technology is making that happen, IMHYOO.

Since when is Roger Waters human?

[Hudini]

There were over 200 pages on A Fleeting Glimpse site on this subject. One of Waters biggest fans there had about 50 RoIO's and VoIO's of the tour and there were 5 songs or parts of them that were identical each night. It is humanly impossible to sing a song identical each and every night.

Yes...it IS humanly possible.

I agree. But if we all know that songs from Amused To Death sounded better on In The Flesh, is it humanly possible for someone who can not record the voice on the album properly to pre-record the vocals for the show so that it sounds better live?

Consider this...Roger Waters has mentioned in numerous interviews (pretty much all of which are available on youtube, I think,) that he is not the most precise bass player ever. Roger Waters has never pretended to be any sort of bass virtuoso. Nor any virtuoso of voice.

I'm not trying to harp on Roger being "less than worthy of note" as far as technicality goes...I'm simply pointing out that Roger Waters is not exactly the most "precise" of artists when it comes to performing.

Sure, they guy could do identical performances most of the time...but ALL of the time?

I think that you are overlooking the fact Waters has some outstanding musicians to back him up that could perform the same every night and that he himself never plays any complicated parts (as you've mentioned), so he could also play the same every night.

This is all going slightly off topic, in my opinion. We should be talking about lip-syncing, not a complete playback.

[oh by the way]

Yes...it IS humanly possible.

However, I'm going to bust out my idiocy on you here.

Let me ask this (to anyone who wants to jump in here:)

Is it PROBABLE?

Actually yes IMHO. Lots of bands' bootlegs have parts that sound EXACTLY the same on multiple shows...the odds may even be FOR it considering how many shows there are. Freddie Mercury could sing the same thing more than once and actually have it phase on a vectorscope.

It is highly unlikely for Roger or any vocalist to sing Sheep, Have a Cigar, Fletcher Memorial Home, Time and parts of Shine On identically 50 nights of a tour. There was variation in all other songs on the RoIO's and VoIO's. I saw Roger and enjoyed the show, but even the biggest Waters fans (and I am one) when presented with the evidence should accept he was not singing these songs live. The Gunner's Dream was also lip-synched, but was dropped from the setlist.
Yes, it would be much easier for Roger to go into the studio and record the vocals (with as many attempts as needed and studio technology) than sing them live each night of the tour.

[Hudini]

Yes, it would be much easier for Roger to go into the studio and record the vocals (with as many attempts as needed and studio technology) than sing them live each night of the tour.

But then again, why didn't he "go into the studio and record the vocals (with as many attempts as needed and studio technology)" on his studio recordings where his vocals almost always sound crappy?

[mosespa]

But then again, why didn't he "go into the studio and record the vocals (with as many attempts as needed and studio technology)" on his studio recordings where his vocals almost always sound crappy?

Because record companies like to put pretty strict deadlines on things.

Perhaps Roger didn't have the time to rest his voice for months before recording better vocals.

Perhaps he thought they sounded good that way...then changed his mind after the fact.

Using Double Core as an example...why didn't I keep working on Come And See until I had it as perfect as I wanted it to be?

Because if I did...everyone would STILL be waiting for me to finish.

You have to wrap up the album at SOME point and just live with whatever flaws it may have.

Now...when you're gearing up for a tour, you can take a little more time. Plus, Roger now has the benefit of nearly fifteen years of hindsight (in regards to ATD.) Maybe he doesn't like that vocal sound anymore.

[Vlad The Impaler]

You have to wrap up the album at SOME point and just live with whatever flaws it may have.

LOL.....I'm laughing and agreeing for personal reasons....which I know you understand.

.

[Hudini]

Because record companies like to put pretty strict deadlines on things.

Perhaps Roger didn't have the time to rest his voice for months before recording better vocals.

Well, he issues one album in ten years, I can hardly think that he can't find a month or two before recording to rest his voice, unless he doesn't really want to.

Perhaps he thought they sounded good that way...then changed his mind after the fact.

Using Double Core as an example...why didn't I keep working on Come And See until I had it as perfect as I wanted it to be?

Because if I did...everyone would STILL be waiting for me to finish.

I actually didn't hear Double Core (it doesn't work on my machine, I have no idea why), but I get the picture. Once you get a recording where you want it, you shouldn't care what others say.

Still, Waters somehow manages to use much better vocals in the live set then on the studio recordings, and that's in the middle of the tour, when he had no time to rest his voice. Maybe resting (if he does that at all) does only harm to his voice?

[Meneer Jansen]

Did Roger lip synch during his Live Earth performance? (I'm stiil waiting for the torrent to finish downloading the gig).

[mosespa]

1. Well, he issues one album in ten years, I can hardly think that he can't find a month or two before recording to rest his voice, unless he doesn't really want to.

2. I actually didn't hear Double Core (it doesn't work on my machine, I have no idea why), but I get the picture. Once you get a recording where you want it, you shouldn't care what others say.

3. Still, Waters somehow manages to use much better vocals in the live set then on the studio recordings, and that's in the middle of the tour, when he had no time to rest his voice. Maybe resting (if he does that at all) does only harm to his voice?

1. That doesn't mean that he has ten years in which to record his album. Often, he only has a few months.

So...since the whole album has to be recorded in a few months, he can't really afford to take one of those months off to rest his voice, now can he?

2. No...you misunderstand.

I DON'T have Come And See to a point where it satisfies me.

I only have it to a point where I can live with it. If it were up to me, I'd still be working on the song. But I had to let it go...even with all the flaws in it that I still perceive.

This is what all artists have to do eventually.

3. Maybe. But I don't think so. I think it might have more to do with the fact that it's likely that before he goes in to record an album, he hasn't done any singing to speak of in who knows how long.

He's out of practice before he records the album. Obviously, he's not out of practice in the middle of a tour.

[Hudini]

That doesn't mean that he has ten years in which to record his album. Often, he only has a few months.

So...since the whole album has to be recorded in a few months, he can't really afford to take one of those months off to rest his voice, now can he?

That's true. But what I actually meant is that he can spend a month or two just laying down vocals. He would have practice, and a lot of time to rest his voice if he wants to. If you have two months to record some 40 minutes or so of singing, you will eventually record something that sounds good.

No...you misunderstand.

I DON'T have Come And See to a point where it satisfies me.

I only have it to a point where I can live with it. If it were up to me, I'd still be working on the song. But I had to let it go...even with all the flaws in it that I still perceive.

This is what all artists have to do eventually.

I know that's what all artists do... Especially the ones with deadlines. How long and how intensively have you been working on it?

[oh by the way]

Did Roger lip synch during his Live Earth performance? (I'm stiil waiting for the torrent to finish downloading the gig).

I did not see any lip-synching from Roger. It appeared he was singing live the whole set and that even included Money and Us and Them.

[David Smith]

Did Roger lip synch during his Live Earth performance? (I'm stiil waiting for the torrent to finish downloading the gig).

I did not see any lip-synching from Roger. It appeared he was singing live the whole set and that even included Money and Us and Them.

Did he actually sing those songs this time?

[Yucateco]

I did not see any lip-synching from Roger. It appeared he was singing live the whole set and that even included Money and Us and Them.

Did he actually sing those songs this time?

Yep, Rog was singing Money and joined in the chorus on Us and Them with the girls

[mosespa]

I know that's what all artists do... Especially the ones with deadlines. How long and how intensively have you been working on it?

I'll put it this way...I worked on Come And See from October of last year until at least February of this year.

Conversely, I only spent about two weeks on Stars.

Go figure.

EDIT: Having seen the Pentagon Pigs DVD, there ARE example of tapes clearly being used...though not obviously on vocals.

Gilmour's voice appears in "Sheep," intoning the "Stone...stone...stone...stone..." bit.

Gilmour also clocks in with the twelve-string intro to Wish You Were Here. Although Snowy is seen strumming along, it is CLEARLY the original track being played at the beginning.

This only strengthens the notion in my mind that there may be some vocal tapes being used, also.