Does Clare Torry deserve a writing credit for GGITS?

[Stephen]

I wonder if Mademoiselle Nobs got extra Bonio's for her contribution to that song in Pompeii ?

[mosespa]

But if none of them can actually write music, would the transcriptionist that they hired to turn their instructions into actual notes and phrases then be eligible for songwriting credit?

[Annoying Twit]

Sounds to me, then, as if she didn't actually COMPOSE anything. She sang according to instructions provided to her by the people who DID compose the song.

The instructions did not include the melodies that she sang. Where did they come from if Torry didn't create them?

[Annoying Twit]

But if none of them can actually write music, would the transcriptionist that they hired to turn their instructions into actual notes and phrases then be eligible for songwriting credit?

No, because the transcriber didn't create the music, they just wrote it down. No involvement in the creative process.

[Keith Jordan]

I wonder if Mademoiselle Nobs got extra Bonio's for her contribution to that song in Pompeii ?

She ought to! Although I am not sure a dog can enforce a contract (implied or not) in the English courts. Perhaps in India or Pakistan, though!

[mosespa]

Sounds to me, then, as if she didn't actually COMPOSE anything. She sang according to instructions provided to her by the people who DID compose the song.

The instructions did not include the melodies that she sang. Where did they come from if Torry didn't create them?

"Sing longer notes" sounds to me like a definite melodic direction.

[Annoying Twit]

"Sing longer notes" sounds to me like a definite melodic direction.

Yes, but can you see that there's a slight difference between telling someone to "sing longer notes" and giving them a pre-written melody to sing?

[mosespa]

Sure...just as there's a huge difference between giving them the direction to "sing longer notes" (thereby guiding them) and just not giving them any instruction at all (thereby leaving them to compose the part on their own.)

[Annoying Twit]

Sure...just as there's a huge difference between giving them the direction to "sing longer notes" (thereby guiding them) and just not giving them any instruction at all (thereby leaving them to compose the part on their own.)

Let's look at it this way. Say that Rick had sung the part himself. At some point, Dave from the control room says "try singing longer notes". Should Dave get a writing credit?

[PublicImage]

No. If she deserves writing credits for improvising over a chord progression, then Carlos Santana and John McLaughlin deserve writing credits for improvising over the chord progression of John Coltrane's A Love Supreme on their collaborative album. Obviously, people would object to Santana and McLaughlin receiving credit for something that was composed by Coltrane, and so should people object to Torry being accredited for co-authorship of the Great Gig in the Sky.

[Massed Gadgets]

I'm glad PI brought up jazz, because it is an excellent example, and GGITS is very influenced by jazz...in jazz you get a number of musicians improvising during a piece, but they don't all get composing credits. That credit goes to the person or persons who originally conceived and composed the piece. Was Clare Torry there with Rick from the beginning, composing the piece with him? If so, then yes, she should get co-composer credits. But she wasn't. The music already existed. Clare Torry didn't create it, she improvised along with the music that Richard Wright had already composed.

And no, Clare Torry didn't change the law, I didn't mean that. But the very fact that a precedent was set by the courts opens the door for other session musicians to make the same claim...and some already have.

[Idisaffect]

It all comes down to the willingness of the person in control to share a piece of the credit.

The Doors gave everyone credit on their early albums even though it was usually one or 2 guys actually writing the songs. Sabbath did the same. Bill Ward got equal credit but obviously contributed less actual chords and lyrics. Dio complained about this practice when he was in Sabbath. I think Dio should have been happy just to be in Sabbath!

Personally, I would have given a credit on Great Gig because the contribution of the female singer was so significant. Not that I like it all that much.

A slightly, but not totally, off topic thought:
I think the reason Waters stopped sharing credits (or using parts from the others to embellish his fully realized songs) is simply because he no longer liked the other members of the band.

[Yucateco]

where is the "I don´t care!" option?

[PublicImage]

If you don't care, I wonder why you bothered opening the thread in the first place. The title makes the subject more obvious than most on this board manage.

[Yucateco]

i opened to see if there is a "I don´t care" option.