Does Clare Torry deserve a writing credit for GGITS?

[mosespa]

TARDIS

Time
And
Relative
Dimensions
In
Space

For Pete's sake...I've NEVER watched an episode of Dr. Who and I know that.

[PublicImage]

Porridge?

[mosespa]

Andy Partridge...in a pear tree, even.

[PublicImage]

Alan Partridge?

[mosespa]

Alan Smithee

[PublicImage]

The Smiths?

[lostplay]

no she does not

[danielcaux]

Claire Torry does deserve a songwriter credit for "Great Gig" aswell as David Gilmour deserves songwriter credits for each and every Roger Waters' song he played a solo for, including most of "The Final Cut".

Fixed, I think at the moment in 1972-73 it was OK that she didn't receive a writing credit, because at the time it was viewed as just an improv. However with the passing of the years the so called improv became, note for note and scream for scream, a main melody that is now an integral part of the song, which would definitively not work without it (just imagine a GGITS live rendition without the screaming, wouldn't you feel cheated?); so now retrospectably it does deserve a songwriting credit. The same goes for some of the Gilmour solos, let's imagine for a second that "Comfortably Numb" initially was wroted solely by Waters, lyrics and music, and then Gilmour would add the famous solo, which is the highlight of the song, don't you think he should receive credit just for that alone?

If she had sat down and written the notes she was going to sing then she would deserve a writing credit IMHO. she didnt and therefore doesnt. .

That's really stupid, going with that line of thought neither Waters, Gilmour, Wright or Barrett would deserve a single songwriting credit for any of their songs, because none of them wrote the notes down on paper at any point in the composition process. Same goes for 90% of rock musicians.

[Idisaffect]

Alan Smithee

He definitely deserves a writing credit.

[mosespa]

let's imagine for a second that "Comfortably Numb" initially was wroted solely by Waters, lyrics and music, and then Gilmour would add the famous solo, which is the highlight of the song, don't you think he should receive credit just for that alone?

No...I do not.

Just as I believe all of the following:

Eddie Van Halen does not deserve songwriting credit for either "Lost Boys Calling" by Roger Waters, nor "Beat It" by Michael Jackson, nor "Give To Live" by Sammy Hagar (on which Eddie plays some bass riffs that have become part of the song.)

Dick Parry does not deserve a songwriting credit for "Money" nor "Us And Them" nor "Shine On You Crazy Diamond."

Rita Coolidge does not deserve a songwriting credit for "Amused To Death," nor does Don Henley deserve one for "Watching TV."

Nor Keith Richards for "All You Need Is Love."

Nor William Shakespear for "I Am The Walrus."

Nor William Shatner for "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" and/or "Rocket Man."

Ad infinitum...

[oz1701]

Claire Torry does deserve a songwriter credit for "Great Gig" aswell as David Gilmour deserves songwriter credits for each and every Roger Waters' song he played a solo for, including most of "The Final Cut".

Fixed, I think at the moment in 1972-73 it was OK that she didn't receive a writing credit, because at the time it was viewed as just an improv. However with the passing of the years the so called improv became, note for note and scream for scream, a main melody that is now an integral part of the song, which would definitively not work without it (just imagine a GGITS live rendition without the screaming, wouldn't you feel cheated?); so now retrospectably it does deserve a songwriting credit. The same goes for some of the Gilmour solos, let's imagine for a second that "Comfortably Numb" initially was wroted solely by Waters, lyrics and music, and then Gilmour would add the famous solo, which is the highlight of the song, don't you think he should receive credit just for that alone?

If she had sat down and written the notes she was going to sing then she would deserve a writing credit IMHO. she didnt and therefore doesnt. .

That's really stupid, going with that line of thought neither Waters, Gilmour, Wright or Barrett would deserve a single songwriting credit for any of their songs, because none of them wrote the notes down on paper at any point in the composition process. Same goes for 90% of rock musicians.

here is an excerpt from an interview Clare did - " I said, ‘Let me go out into the studio, put some headphones on, and have a go.’ They said, ‘Well, leave the intro.’ I went in, put the headphones on, and started going ‘Ooh-aah, baby, baby - yeah, yeah, yeah.’ They said, ‘No, no – we don’t want that. If we wanted that we’d have got Doris Troy.’ They said, ‘Try some longer notes’, so I started doing that a bit. And all this time, I was getting more familiar with the backing track. And then there was a bit more conflab about this, and I remember thinking to myself, ‘I really, really do not know what to do. And perhaps it would be better if I said “Thank you very much” and gave up.’ It wasn’t getting anywhere: it was just nothing.
“That was when I thought, ‘Maybe I should just pretend I’m an instrument.’ So I said, ‘Start the track again.’ One of my most enduring memories is that there was a lovely can [i.e headphone] balance. Alan Parsons got a lovely sound on my voice: echoey, but not too echoey. When I closed my eyes – which I always did - it was just all-enveloping; a lovely vocal sound, which for a singer, is always inspirational.”

It sounds like you turned a corner when you abandoned the idea of expressing anything specific.

“Well, they did say, ‘Be more emotional.’ So I started getting this pattern of notes, and they said, ‘Well, that seems the right direction to go.’ And I told them to put the tape on. I knew from past experience... well, I used to be called ‘First-take Torry’ because, very often, the first take I did was the best. And at the end of the first take, Dave Gilmour said, ‘Do another one - but even more emotional.’ So I did another one. And then he said, ‘I think we could do a better one.’ I started, and half way through, I realised that I was beginning to be repetitive; derivative. It didn’t have that off-the-top-of-the-head, instantaneous something. It was beginning to sound contrived. I said, ‘I think you’ve got enough.’ I thought it sounded like caterwauling. " Interviewed by author John Harris for his book "Dark Side Of The Moon" and exclusive to Brain Damage.

now it seems to me that she took a lot of direction from the band - that the band had something - a specific direction in which to go. Clare pretty much went in the direction she was pointed in - that the results were derived from the input from the band.

i realise not all composers in the modern era write every note down but they do arrive at the song by a creative process and not by being told what to do.

i think Clare Torry's contribution was an extremly valuable one but nevertheless does not deserve a writing credit - perhaps this is why she is credited with "vocal composition" on the album rather than a writing credit.

[Hudini]

1. I think at the moment in 1972-73 it was OK that she didn't receive a writing credit, because at the time it was viewed as just an improv. However with the passing of the years the so called improv became, note for note and scream for scream, a main melody that is now an integral part of the song, which would definitively not work without it

2. The same goes for some of the Gilmour solos, let's imagine for a second that "Comfortably Numb" initially was wroted solely by Waters, lyrics and music, and then Gilmour would add the famous solo, which is the highlight of the song, don't you think he should receive credit just for that alone?

3. That's really stupid, going with that line of thought neither Waters, Gilmour, Wright or Barrett would deserve a single songwriting credit for any of their songs, because none of them wrote the notes down on paper at any point in the composition process.

1. But, as you also say, it's still just improvisation, despite the fact it did become the integral part of the song over the years. The same goes for all of Gilmour's solos ever - as far as you can tell from the demos, all of them were improvisations from day one, and he kept on changing them until they finally appeared on the album. Also, he kept on changing them a bit over the years, so the famous "Comfortably Numb" second solo today sounds a lot different than how it sounded on the album version. He still improvises, and that's not how you earn a songwriter credit.

2. That would not be nearly enough. Per instance, Gilmour got a songwriter credit just for thinking up the solos for "Dogs", which is otherwise a Roger Waters penned song. We know he didn't improvise them because there are numerous versions of "You Gotta Be Crazy" that were recorded before the recording of "Animals" where most of the solos sound exactly the same. "Comfortably Numb" is a completely different thing - he got his credit for thinking up the chord structures for the song, not for improvising a solo.

3. But each and every one of them had the chord structure and the main melody lines all figured out before going into studio, possibly even the direction of where an improvised solo would go and what it would sound like. It's not the same like the whole band going into studio and improvising. Someone had to set some rules and basics, and so that person gets a songwriter credit. Some other person may have contributed with something else (pre-written, and by "written" I don't literally mean "written on paper") and so that other person could have gotten a songwriter credit. The other band members who improvise or play what the songwriter told them to just don't get a songwriter credit. And that's the way it works, even in Pink Floyd.

Do you think Joe Porcaro's snare drum in "Bring The Boys Back Home" is enough to earn him a songwriter credit? It has become an integral part of the song over the years, and the man's not even credited as a guest musician.

[mosespa]

[ Per instance, Gilmour got a songwriter credit just for thinking up the solos for "Dogs", which is otherwise a Roger Waters penned song.

Don't know where you got your info, dude...but Gilmour wrote the music for Dogs. He didn't get a songwriting credit for just the solos.

It was a chord progression that he had left over from WYWH...both he and Roger have verified this.

Plus...if you ever see the chords that are used in the first part of the song, combined with the fact that the acoustic guitar was tuned down a full step on every string, you know Roger didn't do that shit.

[Hudini]

1. It was a chord progression that he had left over from WYWH...both he and Roger have verified this.

2. Plus...if you ever see the chords that are used in the first part of the song, combined with the fact that the acoustic guitar was tuned down a full step on every string, you know Roger didn't do that shit.

1. Didn't know about that. Shame on me. But that only confirms that no one in Pink Floyd ever got a songwriter credit for simply improvising. In fact, this whole debate makes me want to open another poll: "Does Lindy Mason deserve a writing credit for GVGP?"

2. I know the chords, and they always seemed to me like each of them was ripped out of a different blues song and then glued together to shape, but they never seemed too unusual to me.

And maybe Rick tuned Roger's guitar down deliberately because he was frustrated with the fact he had no music to offer for the album?

[Creek]

No, she deserves a credit as a singer. which I believe she recieved.