Does anyone else really not get the appeal?

[my breakfast.]

Much like John Wayne Gacy showed insight.

[David Smith]

I guess it requires the listener to create a unity if they so choose. Perhaps you could say that the listener has some work cut out for them to complete this "unity" or not.

On the contrary i would argue that taking such logic means that the same arguments could be used in the defence on anyone who uses surrealism in their lyrics. The problem is that without knowing the author's intentions then such conjecture can lead to leavishing praise on those that don't really deserve it (e.g 'when Noel Gallagher uses surrealism in his lyrics). Personally when i see a set of lyrics to a song like Love Song, Baby Lemonade, Gigalo Aunt, Love You or Flaming then i don't find myself tempted to try and find a deeper meaning in them. They are nice enough, but they don't really do much for me.

In saying that some of his tracks do such as Dark Globe, Feel and Dominos, so when he gets it right then he can be very good.

Opinion of course. I think it has dated much better than Neil Young's Landing on Water, to be all arbitrary...

That does not mean it has dated well. I find it quite starnge that to defend an album as sounding too much a product of it's timke you choose a notoriously bad album as a point of comparisson (i.e well that one is worse). How about comparing it to other works in the floyd back catlogue?

Roger is fairly literal, so clocks and a song about time, cash registers and a song about money...not much work for the listener (see point 1.)

Agreed, though i would say Roger's sense of building his songs in to a sophistiacted narrative is a major appeal in his talent as a writer. I would also argue that Roger's work is universal rather than generic, and being literal is not necessarily such a bad thing here.

what do you want? To get it? That seems a little boring...imo...

I don't really have anything i hope to get out of this except an appreciation for what Syd fans see in him. The period is an important point in the history of one of my favourite bands, but is a period i have never been too fussy about. I can't say i hope to 'get' Syd (not that i feel there is really a whole lot to 'get') but rather i'd just like to discuss the Syd era with some of his fans to find out why they like it so much. It seems fans think Syd is either brilliant or totally overrated. Myself, i fall in to the latter, but rather than just slagging the music off i'd like to hear from the former.

[30yrsydfan]

Syd Barrett got it right every time. Syd kicks ass, he is a legend and the best songwriter I know.
Period.
There I feel better.

[ddebil]

Much like John Wayne Gacy showed insight.

No dear, my reply was aimed at this:

Is it bad of me that I can picture this written in human excrement on the wall of a cell somewhere?

Nothing to do with Old Spice's wafflings.

[my breakfast.]

Sorry daaaaarling.

You stoop to the level of Syd fanatics, but they only beat you with experience!

[ddebil]

At my age, any beating is a good beating, sweetie.

[snifferdog]

Beats being locked into a room listening to Syd Barrett out-takes any day

[Steph22]

[my breakfast.]

Beats being locked into a room listening to Syd Barrett out-takes any day

My favorite one is where Syd is strumming an electric guitar with the volume turned right down. When told to increase the volume he says something like 'its nice and jangly this way'. Inaudible and jangly are two different things my friend!

[danielcaux]

Well, since his guitar was being playing without volume it may be inaudible in the recording, but it sure was audible in the room, like when you strum an electric guitar with the power off, it sounds indeed all jangly.

On the contrary i would argue that taking such logic means that the same arguments could be used in the defence on anyone who uses surrealism in their lyrics.

I don't think Syd was aiming at surrealism with his lyrics, surrealist art is way too cerebral and in control. Like Freud once said, it tells more about the councious mind of the artists than their uncouncious mind. Much like Syd's own paintings his lyrics feel to me more impressionistic than anything else. In his songs, especially in his solo years, words and sentences are used in an isolated way more to convey sensations, emotions and feelings than to try to articulate, narrate or outline a concept or message. The best example of that is "Word Song" but here I will use "Rats" as a random example:

Spot knock inside a spider
Tea craving of the metal west
like the fall that brings me to
I like the cord around sinew.

Sometimes the words are even just used for their sound and musicallity, stripped of all kind of meaning, or concious attempt at meaning:

TV, teeth, feet, peace, feel it...
Bam, spastic, tactile engine.

And sometimes there's even a concept and message but it's scrambled and shuffled all over the song's lyrics:

Got it hit down

...says: "That's love yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!"

...Like the fall that brings me to

...Duck, the way to least is less

..Love, an empty son and guess

...each fair day I give you half

...I look into your eyes and you,
flathe in the sun for you.

Rats, rats lay down flat
we don't need you, we act like that
and if you think you're un-loved
then we know about that..

I specially like that last strophe where he seems to change the perspective and grammatical person of the narrator in each verse, or is ambiguous about who the narrator is. Who are the rats? Those telling someone that they don't need him and to lay down flat? Or the one who thinks is unloved and knows about that?

How about comparing it to other works in the floyd back catlogue?

I think artistically, Syd Barrett's albums are infinitely better than any solo Floyd member album. But that's just my personal taste.

When compared with the Floyd canon, musically Floyd's classic period tops Barrett's music, but as I have stated before, Barrett was a much better lyricist than the conceptually coherent but stylistically pedestrian Waters. Just look at mosespa's own example in that thread, and you can see how rigid and mechanical Waters' lyrical style was, and then compared that to Syd's free flowing and rhythmically dynamic verses.

There some quote about Syd's Floyd music being the music of an artist while Roger Floyd's being the music of arquitects. The same could be said about the lyrics, while Syd wrote poetry Waters just wrote intelligent lyrics.

[Vlad The Impaler]

Dave has said songs seemed to come easily to Syd and he never seemed to have to look hard for a word or a melody.
Nick has said songs seemed to come easily to Syd while Roger had to work hard at it.
Roger has said it took him 15 years to get anywhere near the humanity he felt was in Syd's music.
Rick has said had Syd not lost it he could have been one of the greats.

All felt he was an artist.

Pretty high praise.

If you like Syd then you like Syd and that's fine...does that mean he's the best thing since sliced bread? No.
If you don't like Syd then that also is fine....does that mean he sucks? No.

As for a remark about why aren't his solo albums better than what they are...well, considering his mental and emotional state at the time....why should they be? Nuff said.


Just my two cents.

Ta.

.

[oldperfume]

To whoever Nosaj is: You sound like one of the smarter people on this site & I applaud that. I don't agree with your opinions on Syd, but man you debate his "appeal" topic very well.
You wanted to know why people like him. To be honest ( and you can ask my friends!!) I could go on ALL DAY about Syd Barrett!! I don't know where to start, but I can tell you I first heard him when I was 14. I had no idea there was another guitarist b4 Gilmour 'till I bought "A Nice Pair" & wondered who this other guy was.About 6 months later I finally got it (in my eyes). "Better living through Chemistry" was my mantra then, it isn't now. I realized how great he was when I was on drugs but he's even better straight in my opinion!!I'm older now & I just have never seen ANYONE as unique as him. He paid dearly for it so I wonder if he ever thought it was worth it??? Maybe he should have stuck to painting!?!
At 14 my home life was crap, my father a complete*&^%^ & my Mom not much better. Syd's tunes, especially the Floyd stuff got me through some hellacious times. There's a weird bond. Anyway,I'm babbling, like I always do about Syd.
To me Nosaj, he's the best. Period. This is of course my opinion & you don't have to agree but I hate when people tell me how to feel or who to like. You haven't done that......thanks & post back: You actually have some intelligence that is refreshing.....PEACE!!

[David Smith]

You actually have some intelligence that is refreshing.....PEACE!!

Is that to imply the rest of us don't?

[oldperfume]

Not at all David, not at all. He just brought up some great debate ideas, that's all. As long as people don't stand on a soap box preaching that their way is the ONLY way, I have no problems. It just seems to me that some members here don't feel that way all the time. Kinda like these bible thumpers we have here in the States; that if we don't believe what THEY believe, we're all going to hell. There is one thing I can't figure out & maybe you or someone else can help me: Where is all this hatred for Roger Waters coming from!?! PATGOD is my personal favorite but DSOTM,WYWH & Animals, hell, even the Wall are good albums,albeit a bit overplayed (LOL!) Ya know, calling him "Igor", how he sucks musically & is very depressing. No one was saying this when Floyd was still together....& as far as his ego: he let the media in on it 25 years ago but I've heard many a more pretensious rockers like Sting, Mick & Keith.Don't really get it. Do you?....Happy Holidays David!

[sonsofthedesert]

Appeal is VERY subjective as a point of view..I dont get the appeal of Michael Jackson's music but i acknowledge that he appeals to many people (good luck to them)!

Barrett is certainly known to have influenced a lot of musicians past and present and stellar rock gods like Bowie etc.. i wonder how much appeal or influence contemporary artists will have in 40 years or even 4?

I actually think 80s music sounds more dated than 60s because of its over reliance of keyboards and drum machines and general lack of inventive ideas regarding musical format ie ;verse..chorus..verse IMHO (at least Barrett was true to his muse;eg Intersteller Overdrive...Chapter 24,hardly commercial! or top 40 radio fodder) this is why his music HAS,DOES and Will appeal to musicians particularly now and in the future IMHO.


Merry Xmas