Charlie Gilmour > Anarchy in London

[siderealxxx]

Oh my goodness - I simply cannot ignore this nonsensical, ignorant and arrogant post...

As if the student fee hike would affect him in any way.

Thats hardly the point. Famine in Africa doesn't affect me but I don't agree with it and it's kind of important to do something about it don't you think? Are you OK with your government trampling over your friends and childrens rights because it doesn't affect you? What a good friend you must be. A selection of your quotes to back this up:

The kids younger than me will pay more for their edumucations. Hahahahahaha. So what? I don't care. It sucks to be them. Royally. However I am not them.

You sound charming.

You grow out of that stuff when you realise that apathy is the only tool that actually shifts any real weight.

This line makes NO sense, or you don't know what apathy means, or you totally contradicted your first line totally. Foolish.

when the average student seems to live 50% of the time in a Jack Wills outlet I find it hard to think that the already privelidged 24% will have to give up uni as a choice.

Really? Where did you get these figures from exactly? I mean seriously?

The system will iron itself out OR create massive social underclass of people with half-assed and half-finished degrees gnawing for jobs.

No it won't iron itself out naturally. Politics are fluid. They are based on action and reaction. Believe it or not you, me and we actually INFLUENCE things by what we say or do. If you're happy for your Government to tell you exactly what to do then go and live in any one of the dictatorships around the globe that actively suppress its people and let me know how you get on.

Again, the system will adapt or change. Nothing can influence it.

To continue the point (as you don't seem clear on this), in case you hadn't noticed, politics is not a system that simply adapts and changes naturally. It is a process of democracy involving regular human beings of which we are all a part. If we do not communicate our beliefs and fight for them every now and then (whether we win or not) then we allow people to walk all over us and history shows that totalitarianism can and will evolve.

But it sounds like you're happy with someone taking control of your life because you appear to have no moral compass or spine.

I suspect that you're not trolling here and that this is actually your view, in which case I refuse to let it pass unchallenged. I find it particularly hard to imagine that you're a Pink Floyd fan at all... have you ever listened to the lyrics?

[ddebil]

*Boils kettle...preps Pot Noodle....'fills to level'...waits 5 mins (whilst nursing 'semi') and sits poised with a sachet of soy sauce. *

[my breakfast.]

EDITED BY ADMIN - Too far.

What the fuck is this? He asked me a question, I answered it from a point of view that is not snivelling small-minded humanistic bullshit but one with a hollistic message for sustainable development into the 21st century and I get censored. Very mature.

I see the dude asking me questions (who stole Mosespa's old sentence by sentence technique) gets his message preserved.

Fuck yas all.

[J Ed]

if Africa were incapable of "supporting populations of humans", then there never would have been a human race as thats where our ancestors first appeared
in fact the environment there was so favourable the human population eventually spilled over into neighbouring continents, and each one of us, even My Breakfast, is a member of that original African diaspora

[my breakfast.]

The climate has changed since then, and the fact that we colonised other areas suggested even then that Africa was not suitable for a sustained population.

[Duckboy]

He may be a bigot but he's at least in part correct. Giving people welfare won't make them better people. If a person has grown up in the shit it's very hard for them to change. There were interviews done recently with some people in Africa who did crime solely because they enjoyed committing crime (I will try to find this). That isn't to say that everyone is this way but as long as some are it will be nearly impossible to fix problems on the continent.

EDIT: here is one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjSUnv1SHmo

i forget how to embed

[siderealxxx]

He may be a bigot but he's at least in part correct. Giving people welfare won't make them better people. If a person has grown up in the shit it's very hard for them to change. There were interviews done recently with some people in Africa who did crime solely because they enjoyed committing crime (I will try to find this). That isn't to say that everyone is this way but as long as some are it will be nearly impossible to fix problems on the continent.

You think that people in the Western world don't also commit crimes for fun? Muggers, rapists, addicts, bankers etc? You think that we don't have our own social/criminal problems that aren't easy to fix? But it's OK to look down on other cultures from our superior capitalist position and condemn them as a waste of time and beyond help because it's THEIR fault?

Either way we're missing the point here and the subject of Africa was merely plucked at random - I could've used the plight of indigenous fishing laws in Alaska if that was less controversial. The point is we have a shared responsibility and the right to PROTEST.

It's certainly no excuse for quotes such as "I personally think Africans are of a generally lesser IQ than caucasians". Jeesh...

[Duckboy]

He may be a bigot but he's at least in part correct. Giving people welfare won't make them better people. If a person has grown up in the shit it's very hard for them to change. There were interviews done recently with some people in Africa who did crime solely because they enjoyed committing crime (I will try to find this). That isn't to say that everyone is this way but as long as some are it will be nearly impossible to fix problems on the continent.

You think that people in the Western world don't also commit crimes for fun? Muggers, rapists, addicts, bankers etc? You think that we don't have our own social/criminal problems that aren't easy to fix? But it's OK to look down on other cultures from our superior capitalist position and condemn them as a waste of time and beyond help because it's THEIR fault?

Either way we're missing the point here and the subject of Africa was merely plucked at random - I could've used the plight of indigenous fishing laws in Alaska if that was less controversial. The point is we have a shared responsibility and the right to PROTEST.

It's certainly no excuse for quotes such as "I personally think Africans are of a generally lesser IQ than caucasians". Jeesh...

I didn't say that. I'm saying its very difficult to improve a society when you have people like that who are controlling the populace with fear. We in the "Western World" have people like this but:

1. They aren't really oppressing people because we have an infrastructure to protect us, an infrastructure that is impossible to produce with crime levels so high.

2. We are not simultaneously trying to stop widespread famine, extreme crime rates and complete lack of economic structure and security (though in some places there is poverty etc it is not nearly to the levels of third world countries)

I actually think that situations "Western Society" and third world countries in Africa are so different that they are virtually incomparable as far as tackling these issues goes.

I also never said that we shouldn't try to help the situation I just said that they are difficult issues to tackle and in that way my breakfast is correct.

As for protest we may have a right to it but it doesn't make it useful or productive in all cases. All most of us got out of this specific protest was that Charlie Gilmour has no respect for war veterans. For a while I couldn't even remember what the protest was about. And make sure you read this carefully because it doesn't mean I think protest is always useless eg. the protests in Egypt.

Now the thing about IQ is that it is fundamentally flawed because it doesn't take into account circumstance. A much better way to measure intelligence would be to measure ability to learn (perhaps not possible). But seriously go and check out some statistics and you'll find that Africans, on average, score lower than Americans and Americans lower than Japanese. That is raw statistics.

EDIT: oh and no I think it is completely "The Wests" fault in that we took their resources, gave them guns and generally took advantage of the people for centuries.

[drafsack]

oi boys stay on topic - this thread is about chucks inpending stay at Her Majesties finest

[Duckboy]

Point taken. Though I don't think he's about to respond...

[my breakfast.]

"I personally think Africans are of a generally lesser IQ than caucasians". Jeesh...

Look at IQ results. They had to bump the average IQ so that African Americans fell within the standard distribution curve around the mean results.

IQ is a very VERY biased test. You are assuming it is a universal entity, whereas it was created by Westerners as a means of using various Western-dominated disciplines as a means of ascertaining "intelligence". Why would sub-Saharan Africans in anyway be adept at handling screeds of statistics? What the hell do most Westerners know about subsistence agriculture, plant species identification or animal tracking? Unless we learn these things at an institute after an exchange of money and then get a bit of paper stating that we know x/y/z then we are unqualified apparently. I could be childish and turn this right round and say you are bigotted for thinking the IQ test is THE acid test means of ascertaining intelligence.

And I still stand by what I say regarding African welfare. A top-down attitude (throw bundles of money at it until the problem is solved) is great for building atomic weapons but its not so good at kick-starting a sustainable growth pattern in 3rd world countries.

[Duckboy]

"I personally think Africans are of a generally lesser IQ than caucasians". Jeesh...

Look at IQ results. They had to bump the average IQ so that African Americans fell within the standard distribution curve around the mean results.

IQ is a very VERY biased test. You are assuming it is a universal entity, whereas it was created by Westerners as a means of using various Western-dominated disciplines as a means of ascertaining "intelligence". Why would sub-Saharan Africans in anyway be adept at handling screeds of statistics? What the hell do most Westerners know about subsistence agriculture, plant species identification or animal tracking? Unless we learn these things at an institute after an exchange of money and then get a bit of paper stating that we know x/y/z then we are unqualified apparently. I could be childish and turn this right round and say you are bigotted for thinking the IQ test is THE acid test means of ascertaining intelligence.

And I still stand by what I say regarding African welfare. A top-down attitude (throw bundles of money at it until the problem is solved) is great for building atomic weapons but its not so good at kick-starting a sustainable growth pattern in 3rd world countries.

Pretty sure I said that about IQ... maybe not so harshly. OFF TOPIC =p

[Idisaffect]

[Duckboy]

Time to lock the thread i guess.

[snifferdog]

I agree. It has gone way off topic and has turned into a slanging match.