The Final Cut is ok, I think?

[Kerry King]

^ Bowie again? Stop pushing your agenda on us.

What's wrong with Bowie?

Nothing wrong with "Bowie". Something wrong with "Bowie again".

[ZiggyZipgun]

Nothing wrong with "Bowie". Something wrong with "Bowie again".

Hey, I included a disclaimer.

I know it's odd to keep bringing up David Bowie on this forum

I actually hadn't listened to him in quite a while until space rectangle started the "I invented the rock'n'roll spectacle" thread. I've been working my way through the live albums - he released 7 while he was alive, and 10 more since then; he left behind very detailed instructions on what to do with his unreleased material, so I had some catching up to do.

It's hard to imagine Roger Waters enjoying live music...or, hell...anything - but it seems pretty likely that he's attended concerts to compare notes and refine his own ideas. I'm sure he saw Clapton in Birmingham in '76, and I suspect he saw Bowie in London in '78.

[space triangle]

...until space rectangle

Space TRIANGLE

[penguinzzz]

I'm sure he saw Clapton in Birmingham in '76, and I suspect he saw Bowie in London in '78.

How 'sure' are you about the Clapton show? Is there some evidence? Obviously it made the press at the time so Waters would have known what happened and fed it into the Wall narrative.

It seems unlikely to me that Waters would have seen Bowie in 78, what angle are you going on? You think it might have influenced the Wall show?

BTW I don't hear anything particular in the 'Five Years' / 'Outside The Wall' link you posted. Though the 'Five Years' drumbeat did make its way onto a few songs on 'Is This The Life...'. Clearly Lennon was a massive common influence (generally, not specifically on OTW)

[ZiggyZipgun]

BTW I don't hear anything particular in the 'Five Years' / 'Outside The Wall' link you posted.

Just the time signature, the tempo, the call-and-answer backing vocals, the harmonic rhythm (how often the chords change), the same somber tone. That stuff.

[ZiggyZipgun]

It seems unlikely to me that Waters would have seen Bowie in 78, what angle are you going on? You think it might have influenced the Wall show?

Unlikely in what way? Three shows at Earls Court, which was effectively Pink Floyd's home venue. And if he didn't catch any of those, maybe he caught one of Bowie's six nights in a row at Wembley in '76. I know I can't picture Roger having friends or a good time, but I can see him lurking in a shadow just offstage. Maybe he's the Phantom of Earls Court!

This isn't entirely off topic since it applies to The Final Cut as well, but Roger's writing style, his delivery, his idea of what instrumentation was needed - basically everything what approached differently from The Wall onward, and I was just noticing that it had a lot more in common with what Bowie was doing in the late '70s than what Pink Floyd were doing in the mid-'70s - and we can't say that it was just the style at the time, because it really wasn't. It's still funny to see Roger try to sing when he's not wearing an instrument, even now, because he doesn't know what to do with his hands and he's so goddamn awkward.

[penguinzzz]

BTW I don't hear anything particular in the 'Five Years' / 'Outside The Wall' link you posted.

Just the time signature, the tempo, the call-and-answer backing vocals, the harmonic rhythm (how often the chords change), the same somber tone. That stuff.

They also share the use of musical notes and are sung by men, but I wouldn't say there's a particularly remarkable similarity beyond any number of other songs we could mention.

There's an element of pastiche (you know, that stuff) in Outside The Wall which was pushed to the fore in the stage version - it's based on a pattern familiar in folk / blues songs which sets the songs apart.

[ZiggyZipgun]

I think David Bowie is exponentially more talented than Roger Waters, I don't know why we're comparing the two.

Well that's a little harsh.

[penguinzzz]

I think David Bowie is exponentially more talented than Roger Waters, I don't know why we're comparing the two.

Well that's a little harsh.

[penguinzzz]

Unlikely in what way? Three shows at Earls Court, which was effectively Pink Floyd's home venue.

PF played Earl's Court in 1973 therefore Waters saw Bowie there in 1978. Interesting.

Maybe he saw Led Zeppelin, The Stones and Slade there too. Or maybe not. Evidence can be a good thing.

[Kerry King]

Nothing wrong with "Bowie". Something wrong with "Bowie again".

Hey, I included a disclaimer.

Fair enough. Maybe some Velvet Underground or Stooges next time?

[ZiggyZipgun]

PF played Earl's Court in 1973 therefore Waters saw Bowie there in 1978. Interesting.

Good point - I had thought they'd played there throughout the '70s, but they seemed to prefer Wembley for their London gigs. They did play there 25 times on the Wall and Division Bell tours combined, but mid-'78 may have been a little early for Rog to be out and about doing reconnaissance.

[ZiggyZipgun]

Maybe some Velvet Underground or Stooges next time?

None of these artists are on the same level(s), in my opinion.

The Stooges (or Iggy solo) are not as significant or substantial as The Velvet Underground.

VU* nor Lou are as diverse or as accomplished as Bowie.

Bowie put out twice as much music as the Floyd, and across a much broader range. They're not easy to compare to each other, but it's hard to compare them to anyone else.

*I have said that I consider Roger Waters and John Cale to be equally good songwriters.

[Kerry King]

Maybe some Velvet Underground or Stooges next time?

None of these artists are on the same level(s), in my opinion.

The Stooges (or Iggy solo) are not as significant or substantial as The Velvet Underground.

VU* nor Lou are as diverse or as accomplished as Bowie.

Bowie put out twice as much music as the Floyd, and across a much broader range. They're not easy to compare to each other, but it's hard to compare them to anyone else.

*I have said that I consider Roger Waters and John Cale to be equally good songwriters.

You have a lot invested in Bowie. It's made you deaf and blind. This fanboy stuff is embarrassing. I understand that Bowie is more significant and substantial to you. That's personal. However, Bowie doesn't exist without Lou Reed. Not only does Lou Reed exist without Bowie, he's much better without Bowie.
I could claim parallels between pink floyd and Andrew Lloyd Webber. I could use it as an excuse to post ALW videos. I'd be a fool.

Bowie = Showtunes

[ZiggyZipgun]

Bowie doesn't exist without Lou Reed.

I could argue the same thing about Roger and Syd, but then you'd probably say that Roger's writing abilities continued to develop long after they worked together, right? Right.

To be clear, we are currently on a Pink Floyd fanboy forum, specifically on a thread that tries to determine why the most-Roger-Waters-Pink-Floyd-album might not be as god-fucking-awful as 97% of the people that bought Dark Side of the Moon say it is. And The Wall is about as Andrew Lloyd Webber as it gets in the world of pretentious rock music.

When you turn them into adjectives, they're both fairly offensive.