The Final Cut is ok, I think?

[ZiggyZipgun]

As for the post-Waters Pink Floyd albums on car journeys, there's a frequent use of the 'next track' button.

And for Roger's solo albums, I have power windows.

For any of his albums - The Wall and Final Cut included, Nigel Godrich's ITTLWRW excluded - Roger certainly thinks of them as musicals, and assumes the audience is on the edge of their seat the whole time. We've probably all listened The Final Cut enough times that on one of those occasions, we just happened to have right amount of focus to hear it the way he intended, but it doesn't fit most people's listening habits. I know he's written about having low self-esteem, but I believe the reason he wasn't more productive and hasn't written and staged a dozen musicals is because of that low self-esteem. Rick even said way back in 1974 that he thought Roger wanted to be writing musicals, and that he should go off and do that, without them. If only!

[space triangle]

I can imagine a fight...........Pink Floyd's 'Dogs' against Andrew Lloyd Webber's 'Cats'.

[ZiggyZipgun]

I can imagine a fight...........Pink Floyd's 'Dogs' against Andrew Lloyd Webber's 'Cats'.

And to think it premiered at the same time the original Wall tour was underway. Somewhere out there, there are people that saw both!

It's also another example why we shouldn't put too much emphasis on certain Floyd albums being the best selling of any category, because Cats has somehow raked in $4 billion dollars.

I'd like to go on with this bit of a song, describing this schmuck
I'd like to go on - but I'm going to throw up!

[ZiggyZipgun]

Now I have to get tickets to This is Not a Drill just so I can stand up front and yell, "Play Cats!"

[Kerry King]

Bowie is a rootless rock n roll interloper.

What does that even mean?

Rock was a second language to anyone not raised in America. The seeds of rock and roll were not sown in England.

Check out Adrian Belew's story of how Bowie poached him while he was on tour with Zappa. Zappa had pulled Belew out of some dive in Nashville. Bowie swooped down while Belew was in the middle of a tour with FZ. Zappa's response to Bowie was beautiful: "Fuck you, Captain Tom". He demoted the major!

[ZiggyZipgun]

Rock was a second language to anyone not raised in America. The seeds of rock and roll were not sown in England.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read, anywhere.

But there you go - I've been saying all along that Pink Floyd were never really a rock group. The Wall and The Final Cut mainly used rock elements as parody, and just as often incorporated disco, torch songs, and chamber music to tell a story - much like their fellow rootless rock n roll interlopers John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Led Zeppelin, and The Who.

Belew made the right choice; Frank Zappa is well known but his music is not. Adrian went straight from Bowie's '78 tour to playing on Lodger, quickly joined King Crimson as a full member while also recording and touring with a real American rock n roll band, Talking Heads. And then he toured with Bowie again! What an asshole.

[space triangle]

David Bowie just jumped into the Rock'n'roll wagon which was invented in fact by Chuck Berry.

[ZiggyZipgun]

David Bowie just jumped into the Rock'n'roll wagon which was invented in fact by Chuck Berry.

And so did this prick!
https://youtu.be/ZbGuxGGOIV0

[Kerry King]

This is one of the dumbest things I've read, anywhere.

Cool. Vindication. Of course, my statement has been said before by Nick Tosches, Richard Meltzer and others. More dummies. What do they know about the origins of rock and roll?

It would be too much of a blow to your anonymous ego to accept that you don't have a grasp on the evolution of rock music. But I'm glad to help you and space triangle bond.

Yes, Bowie seemed to use rock music simply as a means of attaining celebrity. Then he moved on to dilute the potent fusions of American funk, soul and jazz in search of more top 40 hits. And more fame.

puts you there where things are hollow

[ZiggyZipgun]

Two things.

1. Whatever point you're trying to make, it equally applies to Pink Floyd (and the whole of the British Invasion).

2. Bowie started his first rock band in 1962, when he was 15. He started another band called the King Bees and released his first single in 1964. He "went professional" a few years before Pink Floyd (and the Velvet Underground), but started out and evolved in very much the same way. He was friends with Marc Bolan when Tyrannosaurus Rex was regularly sharing gigs with the original Floyd lineup (and I'm pretty sure at least one of the five-man Floyd shows), and they both became big fans of Syd (Marc even married Pink Floyd's secretary). In case you hadn't noticed, they all moved past the Bo Diddley tunes that they'd started out on.

[MrMan2000]

I like The Final Cut. I imagine this partly stems from fact it came out when I was 17 years old and had fully embraced Pink Floyd and thus bought it the day it came out and listened to it over and over. Feel like Waters had basically perfected the ability to seamlessly move from LOUD to soft. But also there are just some really good songs, specifically The Gunners Dream (which I consider to be perhaps the most underrated song in the band's catalog) and the title cut.

Overall The Final Cut is my highest ranking PF album outside of the 70's peak:

https://imgur.com/8oZfhB2">

[Kerry King]

Oh good. We're talking about the final cut again. It's as good as anything by, say, David Bowie. It's not "rock and roll". It's pink floyd. Sort of. Not Now John was the rock moment. For the radio programmers with their edited lyrics. Gunner's Dream and the title track are among pink floyd's finest songs. If only the sax could have been Gilmour's guitar in every instance on this album.

[theaussiefloydian]

If only the sax could have been Gilmour's guitar in every instance on this album.

I dunno, I weirdly like the sax on "The Gunner's Dream" at least.

[Vegetable Layne]

I would agree both that The Final Cut is where the quality fell off, and that it's still a good album.

In my opinion, The Final Cut and A Momentary Lapse of Reason are similar in quality, though very different in style. The Division Bell is better than both.

Basically yes. I think TFC is certainly a better thematic album and beats both Gilmour-led albums in terms of lyrics by far. However, that TDB is a band album cannot be overstated. It has the most uniquely organically produced sound, like it was the culmination of emotions and feelings suppressed for years by both Dave and Rick. And Momentary, ya know I love it, especially in its 2019 remix where it's finally an equal to TFC as an Floyd album, but it's hardly a collaboration, and there had to come 30+ years to get a version that approaches the band's quality.

[Kerry King]

If only the sax could have been Gilmour's guitar in every instance on this album.

I dunno, I weirdly like the sax on "The Gunner's Dream" at least.

I like the sax. Because it's the final collaboration between Gilmour and Waters I'd simply prefer more Gilmour. I suppose they could have done what they did with Money and had a sax solo followed by a guitar solo. Oh well...