Is TFC really a RW album? Is MLOR really a DG album?

[Real Pink in the Inside]

I have obtained the information below from "The Pink Floyd Encyclopedia":

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The Final Cut (Released in 1983)

Produced by Roger Waters, James Guthrie, and Michael Kamen

Official members of Pink Floyd during its creation: David Gilmour, Nick Mason, and Roger Waters

Songs:

1. The Post War Dream - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Andy Brown (Hammond Organ)
David Gilmour (Guitar)
Nick Mason (Drums)
Roger Waters (Vocals, Bass Guitar)
The National Philharmonic Orchestra (Brass & Strings)

2. Your Possible Pasts - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Andy Brown (Hammond Organ)
Ray Cooper (Percussion)
David Gilmour (Guitar)
Nick Mason (Drums)
Michael Kamen (Piano)
Roger Waters (Vocals, Bass Guitar)

3. One of the Few - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Guitar)
Roger Waters (Vocals)

4. The Hero's Return - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Guitars)
Michael Kamen (Piano)
Nick Mason (Drums)
Roger Waters (Vocals, Bass Guitar)

5. The Gunners Dream - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Guitar)
Michael Kamen (Piano)
Nick Mason (Drums)
Raphael Ravenscroft (Saxophone)
Roger Waters (Vocals)
The National Philharmonic Orchestra

6. Paranoid Eyes - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Andy Brown (Hammond Organ)
Ray Cooper (Percussion)
Michael Kamen (Piano)
Roger Waters (Vocals)
The National Philharmonic Orchestra

7. Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Roger Waters (Vocals)
The National Philharmonic Orchestra

8. The Fletcher Memorial Home - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Guitar)
Michael Kamen (Keyboards)
Nick Mason (Drums)
Roger Waters (Vocals)
The National Philharmonic Orchestra

9. Southampton Dock - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Michael Kamen (Piano)
Roger Waters (Vocals, Guitar)
The National Philharmonic Orchestra

10. The Final Cut - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Guitar)
Michael Kamen (Piano)
Nick Mason (Drums)
Roger Waters (Vocals)
The National Philharmonic Orchestra

11. Not Now John - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Andy Brown (Hammond Organ)
Ray Cooper (Percussion)
David Gilmour (Vocals, Guitar)
Nick Mason (Drums)
Roger Waters (Vocals)

12. Two Suns in the Sunset - Written by Roger Waters.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Andy Brown (Hammond Organ)
David Gilmour (Guitar)
Michael Kamen (Piano)
Andy Newmark (Drums)
Raphael Ravenscroft (Saxophone)
Roger Waters (Vocals)



Tally of the number of songs each member performed on:

Roger Waters - 12/12 (100%)
David Gilmour - 9/12 (75%)
Nick Mason - 7/12 (58%)

Therefore, all of the current members of Pink Floyd at the time performed on the majority of songs on the album.

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A Momentary Lapse of Reason (Released in 1987)

Produced by Bob Ezrin and David Gilmour
Official members of Pink Floyd durings its creation: David Gilmour and Nick Mason

Songs:

1. Signs of Life - Written by David Gilmour and Bob Ezrin.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Bob Ezrin (Keyboards, programming)
David Gilmour (Guitar)
Nick Mason (Effects, Voice)

2. Learning To Fly - Music by Jon Carin, Bob Ezrin and David Gilmour. Lyrics by David Gilmour and Anthony Moore.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Jon Carin (Keyboards)
David Gilmour (Vocals, Guitars)
Jim Keitner (Drums)
Tony Levin (Bass)
Nick Mason (Percussion, Voices)

3. The Dogs of War - Music by David Gilmour. Lyrics by David Gilmour and Anthony Moore.

Bob Ezrin (Programming)
David Gilmour (Vocals, Guitars)
Scott Page (Saxophone)

4. One Slip - Written by David Gilmour and Phil Manzanera.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Bob Ezrin (Programming)
David gilmour (Vocals, Guitars)
Tony Levin (Bass)

5. On The Turning Away - Music by David Gilmour. Lyrics by David Gilmour and Anthony Moore.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Bob Ezrin (Keyboards, Programming)
David Gilmour (Vocals, Guitar)
Nick Mason (Drums)

6. Yet Another Movie - Written by David Gilmour and Pat Leonard.
Musicians (known musicians only):

Steve Forman (Percussion) (Played simultaneously with other drums)
David Gilmour (Vocals, Guitar)
Jim Keitner (Drums) (Same as Mr. Forman)
Tony Levin (Bass, including bass with a drumstick)
Nick Mason (Drums) (Same as Jim and Steve)

7. A New Machine Part I - Written by David Gilmour
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Vocoder Vocals)

8. Terminal Frost - Written by David Gilmour
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Guitar)
Tony Levin (Bass)
Tom Scott (Saxophone)

9. A New Machine Part II - Written by David Gilmour
Musicians (known musicians only):

David Gilmour (Vocoder Vocals)

10. Sorrow - Written by David Gilmour
Musicians (known musicians only):

Bob Ezrin (Keyboards, Programming)
David Gilmour (Guitar, Vocals)
Tony Levin (Bass)
Nick Mason (Percussion)



Tally of the number of songs each member performed on:

David Gilmour - 10/10 (100%)
Nick Mason - 5/10 (50%)

Therefore, all of the current members of Pink Floyd at the time performed on the majority of songs on the album.

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After taking the time to look at the facts of the matter, it's quite obvious which album had more input from members of Pink Floyd.

The official members of Pink Floyd at the time of The Final Cut's release were Roger Waters, David Gilmour, and Nick Mason. All three of them performed on over 50% of the songs on the album, with the album consisting of 12 songs.

The official members of Pink Floyd at the time of MLOR's release were David Gilmour and Nick Mason. David Gilmour performed on all of the songs on the album, while Nick performed in some way on half of the songs. The album consisted of 10 songs, 2 less than The Final Cut.

As for the creative process, Roger Waters wrote the music and lyrics to every song found on The Final Cut. David Gilmour wrote the music and lyrics of the last four songs on MLOR (4/10) solely by himself. Gilmour wrote the first six songs on MLOR with the help of other individuals.

In conclusion, it is quite obvious not only that The Final Cut had more input from members of Pink Floyd, but that there is no other valid conclusion on the matter in sight when taking everything into consideration.

Next time you see a post that states "The Final Cut is a Roger Waters solo album; A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a Pink Floyd album," think of this post.

[jizhomer]

Agreed

I have always felt this way about these two albums. MLOR has always been one of my least favourite Floyd albums (because of the obvious lack of Rog's influence) and I've always liked TFC (because etc etc).

I've never seen any of the stats for this but you cannot mistake the improvement in "Gilmours Floyd" from MLOR to TDB (and then onto Pulse)

[Keith Jordan]

Very interesting conclusion. You have dispelled a myth!

[djproject]

Here's my take on it (and yes I'm fully aware of the facts):

THE FINAL CUT
The only reason why I would consider it a Pink Floyd album is because of its original intention to be a sequel of sorts to The Wall. Although it wasn't that way musically, it worked lyrically and conceptually. It was almost as if Pink suddenly was reading and trying to get an active interest in other people based on his emotional experience of losing a father for a great purpose only to see it squandered.

A MOMENTARY LAPSE OF REASON
The only reason why I would consider it a Pink Floyd album is for musical reasons. Although Richard Wright was not full member and both of them were a percentage of a huge barrage of musicians, it was an attempt to swing the pendelum back to a more collective effort like before Dark Side of the Moon (that never really happened until The Division Bell but even then they have a long way to go).

THE END RESULT
This is the consequence of living with what I would call (and I hope this can appear in some officially unofficial Pink Floyd work like The Pink Floyd Encyclopedia... Keith, are you listening? ) The Great Floyd Schism (not to be confused with the Schism of 1968 when Syd was outsted). When it happened, it wasn't just a normal band breakup. It was a divorce. And from then on, you listen to Waters' solo albums and bemoan the absence of full music and listen to Gilmour's PF albums and bemoan the abscene of sharp words. Now can we get by. Yes. But what I''m saying that I know the difference between Pink Floyd making More, Atom Heart Mother and Wish You Were Here and Pink Floyd making The Final Cut, A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell.

BTW, I'll be very curious who got the joke with the whole schism thing.

Shine on,




DJP

[hockyfan]

I just have to say, I think TFC was a lot better than most other people rate it. Especially the Gunner's Dream, I really think it is a great piece of work.


h

[Flame-Sky Diver]

I view The Final Cut as a Floyd album. It has David's guitar and vocals, and Nick is drumming on most of the tracks. A Momentary Lapse Of Reason is for me David's solo album, because it's just him and the session musicians. Rick and Nick are only on a few tracks (if ever). The overall feeling I get from AMLOR is closer to Blue Light than to Floyd. The Final Cut is musically near to The Wall and even Animals a bit.
Still, there are some great songs on both AMLOR and The Final Cut.

[Diin Jaffa]

we just need RPITI back. there are lot of ignorant David Gilmour followers.

[decampos]

Yeah, I consider TFC as one of roger's solo albums. He wrote all of it and sung most of it. What it has in common with floyd records is good songwriting and moving lyrics and sentiments.

I don't consider AMLOR and TDB as Gilmour solo albums because there were too many other people involved with the songwriting. I wouldn't call them Floyd albums either because they're cold and soulless and replicated the Pink Floyd sound only by numbers. They are an obvious cash-in on the Pink Floyd brand name and tarnish real REAL FLoyd's legacy irrevocably.

In my opinion of course.

[seamusz]

Well... The Final Cut is one of my favorite floyd albums. BUT I think the title resolves all doubt as to whos album it is.

the final cut

a requiem for the post war dream
by roger waters

performed by pink floyd

obviously its a Roger Waters creation.

AMLOR I see as an attemt by David Gilmour to restore the Floyd. He did almost all of the work. He scheduled everything, made sure everything souded the way he wanted it to, much like Roger Waters did with THC. So I see both albums as not pure floyd. The only thing that TFC has that AMLOR doesn't is quality.

[mosespa]

AMLOR began life as ambiguously as an album can...Gilmour had stated that he was working on something that could be a solo album, a new Pink Floyd album or the beginnings of a new band.

The Final Cut may have come close to being a Waters solo album at one point, but it began life as a Pink Floyd album and was ultimately released as such. There was actually no ambiguity during the recording, Roger just offered to make it a solo album since Gilmour and Mason didn't seem to care for it.

Of course, they didn't want that to happen...there were contracts to fulfill, after all.

In the end, this is something that I feel is worthy of note when considering this issue...TFC began life as a Floyd album, AMLOR did not.

[Useful Idiot]

I don't consider AMLOR and TDB as Gilmour solo albums because there were too many other people involved with the songwriting. I wouldn't call them Floyd albums either because they're cold and soulless and replicated the Pink Floyd sound only by numbers. They are an obvious cash-in on the Pink Floyd brand name and tarnish real REAL FLoyd's legacy irrevocably.

For AMLOR, I can understand this. Hell, I'd agree if I didn't like the album. I think that TDB is a Floyd album though. The guitar playing, vocals, keyboards, drums and the majority of the songwriting is all Gilmour, Wright and Mason. Yeah, there are some other people with songwriting credits, but I personally am not that bugged by it, although I can see how one would be. If means the songwriting will be better, let them do whatever the hell they want. I actually do think that AMLOR is a Gilmour solo album, but I think it's a good Gilmour solo album, contrary to what most of you seem to think.

As for TFC, I do think that it's a Roger solo album, but that has nothing to do with why I hate it (although maybe it would have been better had Dave or Rick contributed more, but that's not the point). Just my thoughts.

[Meddler]

TFC is a great alubm. So is MLOR. They are both important as the signify a new begining and an end to an era. With the obvious out of the way... regardless of what you may say The Final Cut was an attempt to end Floyd. Lapse was to start it back up. Nick plays on 5/10 songs, because 5/10 songs from Lapse had drums.

"Ah Nick, please put the bass down... I know you really want to be invovled, but we already did all the drum tracks"

Anyway, David was the main guy infront of the scenes, but Bob Ezrin, James Guthrie, and Doug Sax were all involved in MLOR. Granted some of these guys are invovled in both Rogers and Davids solo work, but still they have a long history with the Floyd. Storm did the album cover for MLOR, and Willie Cristie did TFC (Thanks to Mosespa for the info on Cristie)

The Final Cut is as much Roger Waters Pink Floyd as MLOR is David Gilmours Pink Floyd. I'm sure they had more fun and play during the touring of MLOR then they did for the studio of TFC.

~Devils Advocate

[nosaj]

These are Pink Floyd albums.

[Meddler]

Strong words! I agree.

[Flame-Sky Diver]

I don't consider AMLOR and TDB as Gilmour solo albums because there were too many other people involved with the songwriting. I wouldn't call them Floyd albums either because they're cold and soulless and replicated the Pink Floyd sound only by numbers. They are an obvious cash-in on the Pink Floyd brand name and tarnish real REAL FLoyd's legacy irrevocably.

For AMLOR, I can understand this. Hell, I'd agree if I didn't like the album. I think that TDB is a Floyd album though. The guitar playing, vocals, keyboards, drums and the majority of the songwriting is all Gilmour, Wright and Mason. Yeah, there are some other people with songwriting credits, but I personally am not that bugged by it, although I can see how one would be. If means the songwriting will be better, let them do whatever the hell they want. I actually do think that AMLOR is a Gilmour solo album, but I think it's a good Gilmour solo album, contrary to what most of you seem to think.

Although I said that I don't consider AMLOR being a PF album, this is because of the fact that there are only two members of Pink Floyd and that it is too much of a product of its time in my view. TDB is definitely a Floyd album for me.