*walks through the open door*
1. You know, I didn't come here to have my posts dissected line by line and mud slung at every phrase. That, despite what "Mosespa" seems intent on insisting, is not debate, nor is it polite. I'm going to fight back, because you're a bit of a bully.
2. First of all, in case you didn't know, an insult followed by a smiley is still an insult. A sarcastic jibe likewise. A "sorry" followed by an insult is worth nothing. Your shrugs demonstrate how little you care about what you say to people.
3. Your comment says it all, Mosespa. If you're the judge of validity, I wonder who voted you in? You just argue against everything you disagree with until the other party runs out of time to argue with you - and then declare yourself victor.
4. My word is all you have, and it's all you get for anyone on here unless you're breaking the rules and getting private info. Call me a liar but make sure you're right first. I don't see your credentials advertised anywhere around here. Your "intellectual assembly line" insult goes too far. An apology is in order for that. I'm a practical musician as well as an educated one.
5. If I was like you I'd have responded with "Perhaps if you had joined an intellectual assembly line you'd be less inclined to insult people to win an argument"
Do you see what I would have done there? I would have used your own insult against you. I would have descended to your level - and destroyed my own argument in the process... but then I didn't say it, I suggested it's what you might have said in my position. I could teach YOU some debating technique. Good job I don't insult people in that way, it isn't my style, and I don't think of people that way just because they don't agree with me... but you clearly DO.
6. Your opinion may be that a statement is incorrect or inaccurate, but you are not always right. My definition of arrangement is the one that is accepted under copyright law. It's also the one I was taught by an eminent arranger who has made a lifetime of success out of sticking to it.
7. My knee is intact. Someone has already agreed with me against you. Is that what hurt you? How dare you declare yourself the winner of the debate by suggesting you damaged me! You're awfully full of yourself.
8. Finally, don't provoke a fight and then walk away saying "peace". That's just more unwarranted sarcasm. You will not tempt me back to post more on this subject. I've had ENOUGH! This is over.
9. BI have considered complaining about your post, but I won't bother. Just don't make it worse please or I will. (walks out leaving door open)
1. "Bullys" expect some sort of "compliance" from their "victims." Since I don't expect such a thing from you, I fail to see how the word "bully" applies to me.
Do you feel like I'm shaking you down for your lunch money, or something?
I'm just responding to your elitist belief (which you have stated in a previous post) that "simple" music is somehow inferior to "complex" music...or as you put it yourself:
in popular music, especially when written on Guitar, a chord sequence often comes before a tune when songwriting and the whole thing is obvious and formulaic. In prog rock, though, the musicians tend to be of a higher calibre, often with a classical background, and they really compose a song.
You are aware that many classically trained session musicians play on *gasp* POP music recordings often more frequently than "proper" music sessions?
I find your above statement to be as insulting as anything I've said to you.
But at least I used smilies to soften the blow of ugly truth.
2. My "sorry" was sarcastic, anyway.
Thicken your skin, prof. No one likes crybabies.
3. I like how you seem to know so much about me. I'm just trying to have a discussion, here.
Perhaps I should explain (though I don't know if it's warranted, necessary or even desired) that I have little use for social pretenses. Sure, there are a number of ways for me to have said the things I've said that might be less "insulting" or more "proper."
I'm not terribly interested in pretense, though. It's bullshit. It makes it too easy for the person listening to gloss over what's really at the heart of what you're trying to say.
I'd rather get to the heart of it and risk insulting someone than to candy coat it and risk them missing the point entirely.
This is not an apology, by the way...so don't bother pointing out to me how poor of an apology it is. It's merely an explanation that seems to be necessary.
I never declare myself a "victor" (unless I'm doing so sarcastically,) and I've never voted myself the final arbiter of anything nor has anyone ever suggested to me that I am.
I AM, however, aware of the fact that the accusations which people level at others often say more about themselves.
4. I don't have any credentials. I've just been a musician myself for some 20-odd years and have found myself in a wide variety of situations (many of which involve other people, lol,) which have helped form my understanding of the way that things work.
You're not going to get an apology for the "intellectual assembly line" remark because that's simply how I honestly feel about the educational system on all of it's levels. I see far too many people waving their degrees around who are completely incapable of an independent thought for my feelings to change.
I'm not saying that you're one of them, by the way. I'm just saying that if you're NOT one of them, then you're definitely in the minority.
5. And you obviously believe "If not A, then B."
Might I introduce you to my little friend X?
And...by introducing the concept, you might as well have said it. You're not quite clever enough to get away with what you've tried to here.
6. The "correction of factual errors" (or however I and you have put it,) comment has nothing to do with the definition of arrangement, but with your vague suggestions that Pink Floyd were a prog band and that it's members were classically trained.
After all, we were talking about Pink Floyd and songwriting when you introduced the ideas of classical training and progressive rock.
None of that applies to the mostly self-taught (this can be verified through documentation widely available,) technically average (when compared to the likes of...say...Allan Holdsworth, Stanley Clark, Chick Corea and Bill Bruford, for example,) members of Pink Floyd.
That's the only thing I was offering in the way of "correction of erroneous information."
I think I pretty much signed off on the difference between your definition of "arrangement" and mine.
Although, I notice that at no time did anyone suggest that what I consider "arrangement" is actually "songwriting."
7. Ah...you're a collectivist, too. Finding strength in the number of others who'll stand with you.
No wonder you call me a bully...your point here reeks of cowardice.
And at which point did I ever claim that I've won? Please provide me the quote in which I say that.
You're awfully presumptuous.
8. How dare YOU presume to tell me the manner in which I am to behave?
How dare YOU declare "over" an argument you're already supposed to have left?
9. Report me if you feel that you must. That's what that button's there for.
I'm not trying to "make anything worse." However, I'm also not interested in smoothing things over with you by kissing your ass...so, do whatever you feel like you have to do.