Roger Waters as a Bassist

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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:15 pm
penguinzzz wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:41 am I think you mean 'ascending line'.
I'd say Roger lost interest in being a bass player no later than 1972, but I don't believe that he bothered with it much in the studio before then either. The Abbey Road footage in the Pompeii film features them all apparently hard at work, but Dark Side was in the final mixing stage at that point, and the director had them mock-up a few scenes as though they were still recording it. If Roger plays "On the Run" on the Synthi-A even though he didn't do it on the album, then I wouldn't assume he wrote the bass line that he plays on "Eclipse".
Again, this is your rather eccentric take on things. He 'bothered with' playing the bass on stage and studio while he was still the band's bass player. As you say yourself, his playing was pretty much pentatonic stuff so you could argue he didn't stretch himself. But he was interested in getting results - which of course the band unquestionably did- so of course he was 'bothered'.

I know you're skirting around the 'Gilmour played over half the studio bass' stuff again, but again I'll point out this is simply wrong. There is no substantial amount of pre-77 songs that feature significant deviations in the bass style of the studio / live incarnations. The development can be traced from stage to studio and back. We know the songs Gilmour played bass on because they're documented (several are simply acoustic studio-only songs where the two swapped acoustic for bass when recording the rhythm part). There's no reason to suppose there's a vast amount of others where Gilmour slavishly copied Waters' lines to 'save time' or whatever.

We know Waters was capable of coming up with bass lines from Piper - some of them are considered rather good in their own way. We also know Gilmour's (earlier) bass playing from Fat Old Sun and the Barrett LPs. It sounds nothing like PF bass playing. If you have specific stylistic examples to prove your case please post them.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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"Originally, you see, I wasn't doing anything apart from being a student of architecture and spending money on buying bass guitars, but in terms of music I wasn’t doing anything at all. 'See Emily Play' and 'Arnold Layne' are Syd Barrett's songs, right, and it wouldn't matter who it was who played the bass of did this or that, it’s irrelevant. They're very strong songs and you just do it. It's nothing to do with music, playing that stuff, it has to do with writing songs, and that was Syd who wrote those songs. I don't think we were doing anything then, if you see what I mean." - Rog, 1970

Not all songs require complex or particularly melodic bass lines. There is very little evidence of who did what on any of the songs. Again, the only reason anyone knows that Roger didn't play bass on "Pigs" or "Sheep" is because Dave spoke up 20 years later to say, 'by the way, that was me' - and I don't think he's ever mentioned it again, but it's been accepted as fact. He's never come forward with 'here's a list of every song I played bass on' - but if he did, I'd be very surprised if Roger would dispute it. Now that there's a memoir in the works, it's not unlikely that some official Floyd history would be published, or some other response, but I doubt Roger will finish it in his lifetime.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:03 pm "Originally, you see, I wasn't doing anything apart from being a student of architecture and spending money on buying bass guitars, but in terms of music I wasn’t doing anything at all. 'See Emily Play' and 'Arnold Layne' are Syd Barrett's songs, right, and it wouldn't matter who it was who played the bass of did this or that, it’s irrelevant. They're very strong songs and you just do it. It's nothing to do with music, playing that stuff, it has to do with writing songs, and that was Syd who wrote those songs. I don't think we were doing anything then, if you see what I mean." - Rog, 1970

Not all songs require complex or particularly melodic bass lines. There is very little evidence of who did what on any of the songs. Again, the only reason anyone knows that Roger didn't play bass on "Pigs" is because Dave spoke up 20 years later to say, 'by the way, that was me' - and I don't think he's ever mentioned it again, but it's been accepted as fact. He's never come forward with 'here's a list of every song I played bass on' - but if he did, I'd be very surprised if Roger would dispute it. Now that there's a memoir in the works, it's not unlikely that some official Floyd history would be published, or some other response, but I doubt Roger will finish it in his lifetime.
Unless they relate to specific occurrences, these same old interviews you endlessly dredge up have little bearing on the discussion.

Waters played bass on Piper, many people like his playing on it and there are lots of stylistic features and quirks that are easy to spot. I'm not talking about melodic or complex as I made clear in my last post. You can hear his bass style, like Mason's drums, go on from there. That's all. That's the evidence, unless - as I suggested - you'd like to point to a place where on some pre-77 song (aside from the ones we know about) where it sounds like someone else.

Sometimes it seems you haven't listened to this stuff, or at least your agenda is getting in the way of simple aural evidence.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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I'm not suggesting there were parts he couldn't play, or that they have distinctly different styles - Roger even learned "Pigs" eventually. I'm suggesting that Gilmour probably recorded a lot of the simpler bass parts as well, due to Roger's self-confessed complete and total lack of interest. The only reason he spoke up about "Pigs" is that goddamn Bass Player Magazine wrote an article about how fucking amazing Roger's bass playing was on it. As he just said the other day, "I’m not keen on constantly responding to every bit of untruth that I hear about myself and what I’m doing."
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:03 pm There is very little evidence of who did what on any of the songs.
*ahem*

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-pink- ... on=5107549




I picked up my copy at a local Books-A-Million.

Someone needs to get out more.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:43 pm I'm suggesting that Gilmour probably recorded a lot of the simpler bass parts as well, due to Roger's self-confessed complete and total lack of interest. The only reason he spoke up about "Pigs" is that goddamn Bass Player Magazine wrote an article about how fucking amazing Roger's bass playing was on it. As he just said the other day, "I’m not keen on constantly responding to every bit of untruth that I hear about myself and what I’m doing."
Yes yes. None of that alters the fact that the claim Gilmour 'played most of the studio bass' is exaggerated.

Maybe it's time to calm down and stop copy/pasting all those quotes. Have another listen to the actual LPs and brush up on the band's actual history, rather than this fantasy version you keep trying to peddle.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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So you want me to listen to the records, and if I hear a bassline that sounds simplistic and unremarkable I should assume it's Roger? Done. And I should read the 'encyclopedia' that was assembled without any assistance from any members of Pink Floyd? Just tell me how it ends.

Actually, does anyone have a first edition copy of that book, and if so, what does it say about "Pigs (Three Different Ones)"? If it says Roger played the bass, and then was changed in the second edition, that will tell you how thorough and reliable the recording session logs he referenced are. Remember, there was another book that came out in the late '90s that claimed to tell who played what on every song, and Gilmour had it (somewhat unsuccessfully) taken off the shelves.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:23 pm So you want me to listen to the records, and if I hear a bassline that sounds simplistic and unremarkable I should assume it's Roger? Done. And I should read the 'encyclopedia' that was assembled without any assistance from any members of Pink Floyd? Just tell me how it ends.

Actually, does anyone have a first edition copy of that book, and if so, what does it say about "Pigs (Three Different Ones)"? If it says Roger played the bass, and then was changed in the second edition, that will tell you how thorough and reliable the recording session logs he referenced are. Remember, there was another book that came out in the late '90s that claimed to tell who played what on every song, and Gilmour had it (somewhat unsuccessfully) taken off the shelves.
I'm not quite sure what makes you think that the encyclopedia (compiled by the owner and curator of the Pink Floyd Archives,) was assembled without any assistance from the band.

I'm not saying that it was, because I don't know; so I'm curious to know how YOU know.

On top of what you list above, another thing you COULD do is look up video footage of Waters playing the song in question. You never see him playing it, no matter what year it is...not the fretless work, at least.

For the record, the Encyclopedia lists David Gilmour as the bassist.

But, since that didn't come from you, it's irrelevant, right?
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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mosespa wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm For the record, the Encyclopedia lists David Gilmour as the bassist.
What edition is your copy?
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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You know what? Let me take that back.

This video shows him playing it.

But I also see frets on that bass; so, he's STILL not playing the fretless part. He's just learned how to play it on a instrument that he doesn't have to have good intonation to be able to play.

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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:13 pm
mosespa wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm For the record, the Encyclopedia lists David Gilmour as the bassist.
What edition is your copy?
Second.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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mosespa wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:14 pm You know what? Let me take that back.
The bass part on the studio version is not fretless; it does slide up quite a few frets in a few parts, but you don't hear any fret or string noise mainly due to the "mudbucker" pickup and most likely flatwound strings. Even without any sliding, notes played on a fretless sounds different - "Hey You" is a good example.

And I've mentioned that Roger has played that solo on his KAOS and Us + Them tours, which is kind of weird, but it is not a difficult part to play. The guitar solo on "Dogs" is difficult to play, even if you've been playing for 25 years.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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I had no trouble figuring out the solo for Dogs once I'd sat down and learned it. I'd only been playing some 12 years at the time; and had really only been listening to Dogs for maybe six years.

Well, you make a point that the Encyclopedia backs up. It says Gilmour played bass, and not fretless bass on "Dogs." It also says that he played "fretless bass" on "Hey You."

But since it's not coming from you, that probably won't mean anything.

I'm just so glad you're here to straighten us all out with your secret insider knowledge.

Maybe Keith should make you an admin?
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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mosespa wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:31 pm And since you're clearly in the know, perhaps you can tell us why Pink Floyd needed Snowy White to play the bass on Pigs (3DO) live in 1977?
Yes...why did Roger need Snowy to play the bass on that one?

So, you had mentioned the book, which I vaguely remembered seeing in stores but the cover was so cheesy that I didn't take it very seriously. I did look it up the other day, and on the author's own website are reviews of the book which point out that in its long list of acknowledgements, Pink Floyd is not listed - hence my healthy skepticism. There usually isn't a written record of who played what track in a session, even for a band like The Beatles where staff were required to preserve every scrap of tape for posterity, and these debates rely on eyewitnesses for every song, no matter how forgettable.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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Again; glad you're here to set the record straight for everyone. God knows all the rest of us have just been making shit up for decades and believing people who wrote books and interviewed the band.

I know that I, at least, have been waiting DECADES for someone to come along and state definitively what's what.