Roger Waters as a Bassist

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mosespa
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:28 pm
mosespa wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:26 pm You seem to be doing a 180, here.
You have me confused with someone else, sir.
I seem to not be the only one doing so.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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mosespa wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:31 pm Can't wait to see whether or not you get your big "AHA!! GOT YOU" moment.

That's all that matters, isn't it?
Not a "gotcha" moment; I'd just like to see if it confirms my suspicions. It's kinda like when I heard Is This the Life We Really Want? and thought it sounded like Roger delegated most of the work to fanboys, and then Roger and Nigel confirmed it.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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This reminds me of two things:

Phil Manzanera being asked if he played guitar on On An Island: "It would be stupid for me to play guitar on a David Gilmour album."

And John Barry's argument that he wrote the original James Bond theme: "If [Monty Norman] had written it, why didn't they ask him to score the next eleven films?"

If Roger played bass on nearly everything, why do so many other people play bass on his solo albums?
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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So, what's up with your seeming disbelief that Roger only played rhythmic parts (in the studio) while all the melodic lines are Gilmour?
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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I think penguinzzz said that...? It certainly wasn't me, man.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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Actually, I have confused you with Mad Bassist.

My bad, dude. I don't know how the fuck that happened. :oops:
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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I'm gonna blame the weed.

:smt003 :smt033
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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All is well! :lol:
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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So, just to follow up on my "healthy skepticism" of anything claiming to be as thorough as an encyclopedia...I contacted Vernon Fitch. I was pretty specific, mentioning the interviews from the '90s and Gilmour's other comments, and asked what sort of notes or records of the sessions was he able to find in his extensive research.

"Check the Pink Floyd Encyclopedia for who played what."

Yes, but what are those entries based on?

"Comments by band members around the time of the recordings."

I replied that they famously didn't speak to the press, and some songs have never been mentioned by any member of the band, and certainly not in detail. I asked if he believed Gilmour's comments about Waters leaving the "chore" of recording bass parts to him.

"No. Waters is a very good bass guitar player."

These were his entire responses, each one a separate email.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:48 pm I think penguinzzz said that...? It certainly wasn't me, man.
Whatever you're saying I said, I didn't.
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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Also, strangely enough, the author of the Pink Floyd Encyclopedia wrote another book focusing on The Wall, where he credits Gilmour with playing bass on a dozen tracks:

Mother
Goodbye Blue Sky
Young Lust
Don't Leave Me Now
Hey You
Nobody Home
Vera
Comfortably Numb
The Show Must Go On
Run Like Hell
Waiting for the Worms
The Trial
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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Yeah, that was a really good book.

I need to get my copy back from the friend I loaned it to over a decade ago. :-k
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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Does that line up with your second edition encyclopedia?
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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I only checked the first three songs.

No credits at all for bass on those. "Goodbye Blue Sky" even has GIlmour listed as the only known musician on the track, but doesn't credit him with bass. *shrug*
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Re: Roger Waters as a Bassist

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ZiggyZipgun wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:10 pm So, just to follow up on my "healthy skepticism" of anything claiming to be as thorough as an encyclopedia...I contacted Vernon Fitch. I was pretty specific, mentioning the interviews from the '90s and Gilmour's other comments, and asked what sort of notes or records of the sessions was he able to find in his extensive research.

"Check the Pink Floyd Encyclopedia for who played what."

Yes, but what are those entries based on?

"Comments by band members around the time of the recordings."

I replied that they famously didn't speak to the press, and some songs have never been mentioned by any member of the band, and certainly not in detail. I asked if he believed Gilmour's comments about Waters leaving the "chore" of recording bass parts to him.

"No. Waters is a very good bass guitar player."

These were his entire responses, each one a separate email.
Fitch's list is out of date - Gilmour played more bass than that. My only contention is that he played less than 'at least half'; at a guess I'd say around 30%, maybe even 40%. Not much difference really but the problem is Gilmour's solitary quote mutates so often to 'he played all the bass' or 'I never thought of Roger as a bass player' (Guy Pratt last year, rather disappointingly as he is currently in a band playing 90% most definitely Waters' basslines).

Again, I'd say just listen to the LPs. Piper, Saucerful & (most of) More feature Waters' style very clearly. I'm talking solely about its distinctiveness. Compare with Gilmour's mellifuous playing on Fat Old Sun, then go to Obscured By Clouds (as we know, Gilmour played a lot of bass on this). The only definite Waters bass on that LP I hear is Burning Bridges and Mudmen. They stand out a mile from the other songs (the instrumentals could be either).

From there I think you can get an idea where the difference is. We know anecdotally Waters played on Atom Heart Mother (the track), Shine On and Dogs. I think he plays on the other stage pieces- Echoes, most of Dark Side. I don't hear Gilmour on anything on WYWH except apparently Welcome To The Machine and doubling on Shine On 6.

So at that point I have trouble giving Gilmour 'half the bass' just on the numbers. (Given that across Animals / The Wall it's around 60% Gilmour - if we include The Final Cut I guess it brings it back to Waters side). I can't find enough Gilmour bass parts for it to possibly add up. And that's all I'm saying, and I'm happy to discuss it based on the music.

I'll repeat that Gilmour's original quote was followed by the story about Waters 'winning bass polls' which is demonstrably untrue, albeit an exaggeration (Waters did do better in the 'Melody Maker' polls than the other members but nowhere near winning). I think DG was in an exaggerating mood that day.