My Theory about why Roger hasnt put out any new albums

[mosespa]

A good point well-made, sir.

[David Smith]

Thank you sir

[kitkat]

Excuse me sir, but not so fast sir.

I wonder what percentage of the stadium crowds were there for any of the songs that were less than 20 years old?? 4%?? 1%?? .000675% perhaps??

The majority of the crowd was there to hear the RW songs performed by a band that RW used to run.

[mosespa]

It makes no difference what the crowd was there for.

David's take (if I understand it correctly) is that Gilmour trotting out DSOTM whilst simultaneously performing new material has more integrity than Roger trotting it out with no new material.

And I must agree with him.

If Roger were promoting a new album and also playing DSOTM at his concerts, he'd come off better.

As it is, it looks like he's just coasting on his past now.

[Hogtown]

Lots of people tour without new albums these days...the usually play in our casinos up here...the Animals toured last year or something...The frickin' Animals!!!

I saw Steppin Wolf years ago...when was the last time they put out an album?

[kitkat]

It makes no difference what the crowd was there for.

David's take (if I understand it correctly) is that Gilmour trotting out DSOTM whilst simultaneously performing new material has more integrity than Roger trotting it out with no new material.

And I must agree with him.

If Roger were promoting a new album and also playing DSOTM at his concerts, he'd come off better.

As it is, it looks like he's just coasting on his past now.

Well, I guess I am disagreeing with you twice in one day.

It makes a world of difference what the crowd was there for. That is the whole point.

Irrespective of how it "looks" there was actually much less integrity with what Gilmour did than what Waters did with his most recent tour.

Using the same standard of integrity that you and David use, during P.U.L.S.E., Gilmour shouldve stuck with playing Permanent Lapse of Creativity and Division Bell. At the VERY LEAST, he shouldve avoided playing songs that were written by the guy he loathes. And at the VERY, VERY LEAST, he shouldve avoided playing songs that were written and originally sung by the guy he loathes (Brain Damage, etc.). And at the VERY, VERY, VERY least, he shoulve avoided songs written and sung by a the guy he loathes and that he has previously made insulting comments about (Brick 2).

But, Gilmour knew that the majority of people were there to hear the songs that PF made in the glory days. I would argue that he used the great songs to get people to pay money to buy tickets to hear the great songs, just so he could sell more tickets. Gilmour knew very well that people were cheering the loudest for the great songs from the Waters era and were taking a leak when he broke out some of that AMLOR/ TDB stuff. That is not integrity.

I remember when a interviewer was sorta hassling Gilmour about playing Brick 2 since Gilmour had nothing much to do with it and was always making his snotty asinine comments about the masterpiece and Gilmour said something like "yeah, but I wrote the guitar bit at the end". It was like WTF dude? I suppose Harrison shouldve run around playing Nowhere Man cuz he wrote the guitar solo or any of the Lennon/McCartney compositions for that matter. absurd. Thats not integrity.

Waters actually had MORE integrity. This is because, with Waters recent tour, you knew what you were getting and Waters wasnt selling anything other than him playing his songs and did not play a single song that was written by David Gilmour. A couple songs were written by the both of them but zero Gilmour compositions and certainly nothing from the post-Waters masquerade ball.

[mosespa]

You seem to be completely forgetting the fact that the PULSE tour wasn't a Gilmour solo tour. It was a Pink Floyd tour.

Despite the fact that your beloved genius was absent, the other three guys were awarded the right to tour under the name Pink Floyd...which means that they also had the right to perform whatever material released under that name that they wished to.

I mean, you totally forgot to mention the sacrilege of a Gilmour-led PF performing Astronomy Domine...a song that was written and recorded long before Gilmour even joined the band.

For Roger Waters as a solo artist to perform any one of the two Gilmour-written songs in the Pink Floyd catalogue would run counter to the whole point of him being a solo artist.

Roger's promoting stuff that he was the creative force behind.

Gilmour was touring stuff that the band had done.

You do see the different between the apple and the orange, right?

Why should Gilmour not be allowed to perform stuff from before HE was the leader of Pink Floyd just because Roger stormed off in a huff and didn't want to play with him anymore?

As for all of your "least and very, very, very, very, very leasts," well...isn't it just a shame that you're not the final arbiter of what others get to do with Pink Floyd and it's songs?

I say again...it makes no difference what the crowd was there for. They were there to see an awesome show. It was Gilmour's job to give them one.

That meant making sure that Pink Floyd played stuff that Pink Floyd were known for having done.

Your big argument here might as well contain some clause making it permissible for Gilmour to play Waters' solo material, imo, for all of the point that it misses.

I'll put away the can opener when you put the can away.

[kitkat]

You seem to be completely forgetting the fact that the PULSE tour wasn't a Gilmour solo tour. It was a Pink Floyd tour.

Despite the fact that your beloved genius was absent, the other three guys were awarded the right to tour under the name Pink Floyd...which means that they also had the right to perform whatever material released under that name that they wished to.

I mean, you totally forgot to mention the sacrilege of a Gilmour-led PF performing Astronomy Domine...a song that was written and recorded long before Gilmour even joined the band.

For Roger Waters as a solo artist to perform any one of the two Gilmour-written songs in the Pink Floyd catalogue would run counter to the whole point of him being a solo artist.

Roger's promoting stuff that he was the creative force behind.

Gilmour was touring stuff that the band had done.

You do see the different between the apple and the orange, right?

Why should Gilmour not be allowed to perform stuff from before HE was the leader of Pink Floyd just because Roger stormed off in a huff and didn't want to play with him anymore?

As for all of your "least and very, very, very, very, very leasts," well...isn't it just a shame that you're not the final arbiter of what others get to do with Pink Floyd and it's songs?

I say again...it makes no difference what the crowd was there for. They were there to see an awesome show. It was Gilmour's job to give them one.

That meant making sure that Pink Floyd played stuff that Pink Floyd were known for having done.

Your big argument here might as well contain some clause making it permissible for Gilmour to play Waters' solo material, imo, for all of the point that it misses.

I'll put away the can opener when you put the can away.

Dude, I aint dumb. I saw what you did.

Go back and re-read the discussion. OK? Here....I'll wait.

OK, you back yet? Good.

You realize that we werent talking about who has the legal right to the name Pink Floyd or what is the final arbiter or all that other stuff.

Yeah....I beliieeeeve we were talking about INTEGRITY...not legalities.

That is a totally different subject.

And for my next trick, look at my left hand and PRESTO I will change the subject as I sense I am losing the argument.

I dont even need to respond to any of your points dude as you never even addressed my points....you simply changed the subject.

Yeah...that might work when you are debating with the punters but I am a college boy.

I believe this is the very first time, in my discussions with Mosespa, a guy who I respect very much that I can say with total confidence:

PWNED!!!!

[mosespa]

1. Dude, I aint dumb. I saw what you did.

2. Go back and re-read the discussion. OK? Here....I'll wait.

3. OK, you back yet? Good.

4. You realize that we werent talking about who has the legal right to the name Pink Floyd or what is the final arbiter or all that other stuff.

Yeah....I beliieeeeve we were talking about INTEGRITY...not legalities.

That is a totally different subject.

5. And for my next trick, look at my left hand and PRESTO I will change the subject as I sense I am losing the argument.

6. I dont even need to respond to any of your points dude as you never even addressed my points....you simply changed the subject.

7. Yeah...that might work when you are debating with the punters but I am a college boy.

8. I believe this is the very first time, in my discussions with Mosespa, a guy who I respect very much that I can say with total confidence:

PWNED!!!!

1. Did you really? We'll see...

2. No need...I'm keeping up with the discussion as we go along.

Are you?

3. Never left, man.

4. Right...and in all your railing about integrity or lack thereof, you continue to skip over the fact that the Gilmour-led Pink Floyd is a different animal than Roger Waters solo.

Thus, there are different standards of integrity.

Roger can play Pink Floyd songs because he wrote them. Pink Floyd can play Pink Floyd songs because they're Pink Floyd (like it or not, that's just how it is.)

Now, you can bitch all you want to (and I'm sure you will) about how Pink Floyd without Roger Waters is playing a bunch of songs that they didn't have any part in writing...but they're still the band that played them.

When Roger left the band, the classic five albums didn't suddenly get relocated to the "Roger Waters" bin. They remained Pink Floyd albums.

Just like how when Roger Waters left Pink Floyd, it didn't cease to exist. It continued and put out another couple of albums.

Should every single band who ever loses a member cease playing all of the songs that the guy who quit was a part of?

Quick!! Someone tell Paul McCartney that he can't play any more Beatles songs.

And you might want to mention to Genesis that it's poor form to keep playing "In The Cage" and "The Carpet Crawlers" without Peter Gabriel.

And tell The Doors to just give it up entirely (which really isn't that bad of an idea, now that I think about it, lol.)

I guess you think that Sting should never perform Police material again?

What about Donald Fagen? Can he play his Steely Dan tunes in his solo shows?

5. I wasn't aware that pointing out a gaping hole in your logic was "changing the subject."

I mean...beyond the fact that it means I'm not simply mindlessly agreeing with you and pointing out why.

6. Actually, I didn't.

Admit it, man. You're just mildly annoyed that Gilmour trotting DSOTM out has more integrity than Roger doing it because Gilmour was still promoting a new album when he did it...and Roger isn't.

7. Ah...you're the proud product of an intellectual assembly line.

That explains much.

8. Just goes to show how little you really know, doesn't it?

[kitkat]

Admit it, man. You're just mildly annoyed that Gilmour trotting DSOTM out has more integrity than Roger doing it because Gilmour was still promoting a new album when he did it...and Roger isn't.

Well at least you got back to our debate. All the other stuff is a distraction. The only question we are debating HERE is who has more integrity: Waters touring DSOTM in 2007/8 or DSOTM (PULSE).

In summary, Waters as more integrity for the following reasons:

1) Unlike DG and the other 2 Ringos, he wasnt using DSOTM, which has an automatic built in HUGE audience, to sell some inferior weak ass product like Polly music. He was touring DSOTM ONLY to make people buying tickets happy. Again, unlike DG and the other 2 Ringos, he wasnt using it to sell crap to the audience.

2) He had a co-write in every FRICKIN song on the album (except the great gig) and it was his concept, his idea with the voices, his fingerprints are all over every song. He wrote and sang Brain Damage and Eclipse. DG was the session guitarist on that song. Thus, it is more Roger's album than any or ALL of the three Ringos combined.

3) It sounded better Rog had a better tribute band than the 3 Ringos had for Pulse.

That is my argument and I am sticking to it.

Amen and amen.

[mosespa]

1. Well at least you got back to our debate. All the other stuff is a distraction. The only question we are debating HERE is who has more integrity: Waters touring DSOTM in 2007/8 or DSOTM (PULSE).

2. In summary, Waters as more integrity for the following reasons:

A) Unlike DG and the other 2 Ringos, he wasnt using DSOTM, which has an automatic built in HUGE audience, to sell some inferior weak ass product like Polly music. He was touring DSOTM ONLY to make people buying tickets happy. Again, unlike DG and the other 2 Ringos, he wasnt using it to sell crap to the audience.

B) He had a co-write in every FRICKIN song on the album (except the great gig) and it was his concept, his idea with the voices, his fingerprints are all over every song. He wrote and sang Brain Damage and Eclipse. DG was the session guitarist on that song. Thus, it is more Roger's album than any or ALL of the three Ringos combined.

C) It sounded better Rog had a better tribute band than the 3 Ringos had for Pulse.

3. That is my argument and I am sticking to it.

1. I don't consider "elaborating upon my side of the issue" to be a distraction.

Just because you can't see a connection doesn't mean that it isn't there.

You can't seem to see the forest for the college education blinding you.

2. Here, I've changed your numbers to letters so as to avoid confusion as the mossification continues. I hope this helps you keep up.

A) Yeah, instead he's using it (and it's built in audience) to promote absolutely nothing new. Not even a half-assed album.

This is why he has no integrity in this issue.

I'll say it one more time and I'll even put it in bold and huge letters to make sure that you don't miss it:

ROGER WATERS IS NOT PROMOTING A NEW ALBUM, THEREFORE HIS DSOTM TOUR HAS ALL THE INTEGRITY OF A BAR COVER BAND!!

There...I just pwnd yer ass.

B) DG was also a co-producer on that album. He and Wright came up with the music for Breathe...it is said to have been Gilmour's version of "On The Run" which made the album...I'm sure Waters didn't contribute too much to "Any Colour You Like" other than maybe coming up with the title...it's Gilmour's voice that you hear on much of the album...so, that particular "Ringo" was more than just a session guitarist.

I'd say it's about 50/50 between Roger and the Ringos, actually.

C) I can't agree or disagree with this since I haven't heard Roger's DSOTM.

3. And there's mine. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. *shrug*

It wouldn't hurt you to stop being such a hard head, though...just because you can pass standardized tests doesn't mean that there's not still stuff you can learn.

But they don't tell you that in college, do they?

[kitkat]

Yeah, instead he's using it (and it's built in audience) to promote absolutely nothing new. Not even a half-assed album.

This is why he has xxxxxxx MOREintegrity in this issue.:

There dude. I fixed your quote for you. Now it is accurate.

I'd say it's about 50/50 between Roger and the Ringos, actually.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[mosespa]

Actually, my quote was just fine before you fucked it up.

There you go again...letting your ability to pass standardized tests make you think that you're somehow intellectually superior.

You're not.

And to me, that piece of sheepskin that you hold so dear is proof that you're not.

[kitkat]

Actually, my quote was just fine before you fucked it up.

There you go again...letting your ability to pass standardized tests make you think that you're somehow intellectually superior.

You're not.

And to me, that piece of sheepskin that you hold so dear is proof that you're not.

Dude, the "college boy" comment was a throw away line made for laughs.

I was intellectually superior prior to college. That isnt anything to do with it.

You are harping on this college thing too much dude. who cares?

Dont get squirrely on me dude. I dont have anybody else to debate and discuss Floyd with.

[mosespa]

You are harping on this college thing too much dude. who cares?

I'm harping on it WAY less than you are the whole "Gilmour's Pink Floyd is a forgery" thing.

Forgery or not...it did continue without Roger, it was successful, people did buy it and now it's all over with.

Like it or not, it is a fact that Gilmour had every right in the world to play all of those songs that Roger wrote...because Roger didn't release them as a solo artist, he released them as a member of Pink Floyd.

Gilmour's integrity may be damaged by many, many things...but it's not damaged (in my opinion,) by playing DSOTM during a tour to promote the newest Pink Floyd album.

Roger may hold more integrity than Gilmour in many, many other ways...but, playing DSOTM during a tour which doesn't promote any new material at all is not one of them.

"Why's this Roger Waters guy playing so much Pink Floyd stuff?"