The Madcap Laughs: What Went Wrong?

[Tenniru]

I was listening to Syd's Madcap Laughs one day and wondering why it failed to get past the top 40 anywhere. It was so full of classics, but for some reason it seemed to collapse in the end. I realized that the only real problems were the take of Dark Globe (where he SCREAMS the lyrics of a soft ballad and plays out of time), and the existance of the weak She Took A Long Cold Look, the screamed (and sloppily edited) Feel, and the absolute madhouse that was If It's In You (which contains two false starts, a breakdown mid-song, and sheer broken-Syd insanity for lyrics). Then it came back for a battered ending with the smooth Late Night. You'd almost think his songwriting skill died.
Then I listened to Opel; namely, the only good songs on it. The title track, Swan Lee, and the take of Dark Globe. They all existed long before Madcap was done.
Were you to replace the take of Dark Globe on TML with the far superior classic on Opel and add the two Madcap outtakes, you'd have:

1. Terrapin
2. No Good Trying
3. Love You
4. No Man's Land
5. Wouldn't You Miss Me (Dark Globe)
6. Here I Go
7. Octopus
8. Long Gone
10. Swan Lee (Silas Lang)
11. Opel
12. Late Night

This album looks vastly superior already; in fact, all but two of the tracks showed up on the best-of disc! They're all great! There's one less track, of course, but Opel is long enough to make up for that.

I was wondering; whose idea was it to stick those three fragments of nonsense and the wrong WYMM take on there? Was it Waters/Gilmour? If so, what were they thinking?

[Slalomluke]

I can see already that this thread might start some fights

[Slambient Expressway]

I think it's because it's a pretty sprawling and awkward album.

[DarksideMoon]

Yeah I agree with that. I think it was too weird for the main stream so thats why it didn't really get anywhere. I haven't heard this album myself yet but i've heard alot of great stuff about it.

[Maisie]

these are just my opinions.. but i can feel my old protective Sydian Blood rising to the surface,ahahah-

i think "Feel" is a beautiful-if very sad song... and i don't know if you are confusing it with something else but Syd certainly doesn't scream it... not in the least. the chords are lovely-and the emotion in his voice is very affecting-- put on headphones and specifically listen to the second time he sings"oh so alone"...
the chord changes aand knowing what we know now- hearing hi singing 'I want to go home" and the chords are so haunting... and the words ,"a gasp shringing... a bad bell's ringing".. well if anyone was hearing a bad bell ringing -- it probably WAS Syd.....

Dark Globe -on the Opel album he sings an octave down-and it completley takes away from it-it loses all the anxiety- singing it up where he is(on Madcap) somewhat straining is much more expressive of the mood of the song and thats why i think they decided to include it. i never thought of Dark Globe as being a "Soft ballad" particularly-i see it as an "on the edge" question to those who saw him lettingit all go? and as Puddletown tom said a while back it could very well be a pleading question to the lover who was turning away when he needed her most - i think it should sound a bit frantic...
"IF IT'S IN YOU"is interesting for me and i feel i need to give you another way of looking at it- bear with me- because instead of it being a weak moment and an awkward thing... think of this----
i feel what you are hearing is what happens when he went into the studio without much prep work and just had the bare bones of an idea-- its almost as if you are hearing him write some of these songs in front of you- AND (this is the big deal for me)
many times people present their case that Syd was this pitiful guy who was so messed up then that he didn't know at all what he was doing ... i disagree (-its true he had serious mandrax problems) at that point already)but i just get the biggest charge out the fact that he absolutely goes back to that long melody line -EVEN AFTER SCREWING IT UP AND PRAC TICALLY CHOKING ON IT-and you sure can hear his frustration-)"I'll start it agian it's just the fact of going thru it!') i just love the ballsiness and stubborness of his sticking to his guns and going back again and again to that melody line-BECAUSE THATS WHAT HE HEARS IN HIS HEAD!!!! he absolutely will NOT give it up!! harded headed he was!!!! and as far as the insanity of the lyrics... it's Syd Barrett you ain't gonna get pie'/sky/moon'june/

I have said before that i think of Barrett's work as one piece -because as it has been pointed out most everything was recorded in a fairly close space of time....i love all of it warts and all. especailly some of the outtatkes because they show him ina much more huiman light...instead of trying to maintain the godlike distance of false studio perfection.
that being said if i can gently speak for most Sydians... i BELIEVE Madcap is the most loved of all his work and i believe the work most considered to be the Classic Syd Album... generally speaking-i think that in essence is the very reason it may not have done as well- it truly is a snapshot of Syd at the time...
but it is less accessible than Barrett...where they tried very hard to give the illusion of a band type feel.
And i personally feel that "LongGone" may well be a Masterpiece for Syd... how could anyone not love Rick Wright once again backing up his old friend on the organ-those crescendos are superb. the sound of Syds' acoustic guitar is great as well ...well worth the price of admission....
and as far as She took along cold look being weak-listen to what he says... "she hasn't time just to be with me.. i breathe as the water streams over me..." pretty sad...
and Opel is just a mess as far as most folks are concerned... i love it anyway... every page turning coughing, sighing ,breathy, "i'm feeling frail vocal ' and all... its a bit painful for me at times but i love it still. Hell i might be alittle biased..
Syd can't be judged by anyone elses standards....its unfair to even try-and as far as it (madcap ) not being succesful-well it has achieved a certain type of longevity-it was not a smash hit whenit came out but here we are 37 years later -- still talking about it....
And i personally feel that "LongGone" may well be a Masterpiece for Syd... how could anyone not love Rick Wright once again backing up his old friend on the organ-those crescendos are superb. the sound of Syds' acoustic guitar is great as well ...well worth the price of admission....

how can anyone not love an album where syd says "its nice jangly can you keep it there'

[Vidar]

In my opinion Feel is the best song, I just love it, in fact I love the whole record every song, everything is as it is supposed to be, well except maybe She Took A long cold look at me. The out of tune and false starts just makes it better I think, it makes it more intimate and honest.

[Jascierto]

i also think that feel is a great song, often overlooked. Of the three "tacked on" songs, it's clearly the most together. If its in you and she took a long cold look are tracks i just skip through, but feel is really worthwhile.

So, I'd take out those two tracks, leave feel in and insert opel for my dream Madcap Laugghs

Why Gilmour would leave opel off still seems strange, though he may not have been aware of it. It's a question that Malcolm Jones took to his grave, and he has a point: opel is clearly superior to she took a long and if its in you. I've got to believe that opel just got lost in the shuffle

[Maisie]

great post all- and i agree to this day i cannot imagine the mistakea that were made with syd in lkots of ways... but we are looking at it froma long way down the road.. but i cannot imab=gine why Opel the song didn't make it either.. it is something that has really bothered me...because it just doesn't make sense that it was nonchalantly "overlooked"
when you are paying good money and musicians for a recording session-you just dont'e "overlook" things that easy...
and even if they felt it was unfinished -well lots of Syd's songs are sparse and sound GREAT that way!
and i love just about everyhting.. it would be hard for me to say what i don't like... i can find something good to say about al of them because he waas just so damn original....and i cannot seem to separate the albums
but i am very biased.. hell i feel like Rats is my own personal song --
and i think Lanky is a great jam....so you know I'm a lost cause...
makes me grind my teeth and feel great -ahahah
and he sounds like he is getting down on the guitar....

[lovescene4]

The Madcap Laughs is probably my all time favorite album, so an objective evaluation may be out of the question...

It really had five producers: Jenner, Jones, Barrett, Gilmour, and Waters (for "Octopus"/"Golden Hair," Syd and David are credited as producers on the recording sheets, and also on the current 'Madcap' CD). Jones said the actual song selection for the album was made by Barrett and Gilmour on October 6, 1969.

The omission of "Opel" and "Swan Lee (Silas Lang)" does seem strange, as they are quite strong, but sometimes even a great track just doesn't fit into an album's context. As it stands, I think the running order works: it has a flow to it, and the sparse acoustic numbers offset the more "produced" tracks.

I love "She Took a Long Cold Look" (page-turning and all), and find "Feel" amazing and sublime. "If It's In You," which seems the most problematic for many people, works in a dramatic way I think--desperation heightened by the studio chatter/false starts beforehand. Interestingly, it begins with Syd saying what sounds like "...the last one was diamond, actually" (though the indexing on 'Madcap' CDs places this at the end of the previous track). He's probably referring to Take 4 (instrumental?), which I'd like to hear...

Also of interest, backing musicians on "Golden Hair," "Long Gone," and "Late Night" have yet to be identified... although Rick's presence on the first two does seem likely.

[tea-set]

someone said this a while back and it got me very angry at the time but the more i thought of it the more it makes sense,

David and Roger were probably annoyed with Syd for all the shit he had put them through before he was booted from the band and seeing as he was "the golden boy" were probably worried he was going to go on to become a huge star and they would be long forgotten so they set out to portrey him as an erratic, mumbling fool, and put the attention back onto the floyd,

i dont fully agree with this but, makes you think.

i would like to point out that IF this did happen it would of only been because of what Syd put them through and i think they would of regretted it since

[lovescene4]

I think the personal dynamics within a group tend to be complicated, but one thing did strike me--virtually all of Syd's sessions involve Pink Floyd members or someone from that circle (as with his 1968 sessions produced by Jenner) and they all tell pretty much the same story: it was very difficult, you couldn't communicate with him, etc.

A striking exception comes with the work produced by Malcolm Jones--the only sessions without direct involvement from the PF circle. The story Jones tells is exactly the opposite: it was easy, he was fine, no problems...

Not to downplay Syd's condition, whatever it may have been, but imagine being booted out of a successful group, of which you were definitely the leader. Now imagine trying to get a solo career going, and having your solo sessions produced by your replacement in that group and the guy who kicked you out, both of whom you grew up with. It sounds like an emotional thunderstorm.

[arnold crow]

someone said this a while back and it got me very angry at the time but the more i thought of it the more it makes sense,

David and Roger were probably annoyed with Syd for all the shit he had put them through before he was booted from the band and seeing as he was "the golden boy" were probably worried he was going to go on to become a huge star and they would be long forgotten so they set out to portrey him as an erratic, mumbling fool, and put the attention back onto the floyd,

i dont fully agree with this but, makes you think.

i would like to point out that IF this did happen it would of only been because of what Syd put them through and i think they would of regretted it since

I agree with that quote...something that people don't often realised...the reason why Syd was out of Pink Floyd was in major part because the others members of Pink Floyd said that he could not contribute with the band anymore because he was having mental problems right?...but all that was just speculation...and Syd was very unpredictable...I'm sure Roger Waters felt or saw Syd as a menace to theit success..like some sort of rival..it's clear to me that they were rivals...I mean he knew that Syd had talent and could come out with another PATGOD or something...I always wonder why Syd choosed the Soft Machine as back musicians...They were Pink Floyd's rivals back in the days...anyways...one thing that the public had to know for sure is that syd was still coocoo and very difficult to work with...so they did all that sabotage with the album letting false satrs to convince the public it was true...their excuse to that was that they wanted to punish Syd but that's absurd why do they want to punish him..for what..for being difficult to work with...for having gave them a hard time?..i mean that's no sens..who wants to do that to a freind?...I don't know how much of a conscious "conspiracy" this whole thing was....calling the album "MAD"cap laughs...maybe it was all done in jalousy and envy mood...i can't even tell for sure..i don't think it is that improbable...competition between musicians is very commun...yes there are curious facts that seem to work out to a conspiracy against Syd to be successfull...the choice of songs and bad editing seem to be one of those facts..but also...and this i don't hear it enough....it's the bad timing of its release...I'll go as far as to say that if madcap was released in 69..it would have be more sucessfull..the time of release is crutial for comercial aspects...Syd was a bit pissed off that it took to much time to be released....Madcap is a truely 69 album!!!...when 1970 started ...no one really expected a Syd album...it was not a good time for him...i think an album after 2 years is not that bad..but 3 years..i think it would not have help the sales...i think...speacking in a point of view of comercial strategy i mean....

[vera]

I thought there is only me in the whole world with the similar conception of PF vs Syd rivarly.I wanted to add just one thing.You must remember that Roger was high-flying (and still he is) and yes he could fell envy about the band he found.So they decided to be through with him.

[zag]

Was it Waters/Gilmour? If so, what were they thinking?

Money and more money

I belive they just wanted to show to a public how THEY felt about Syd. Remember ( ) in thouse days the crowd called "where?s Syd" (aka the real Pink) and that surely was pissing both Igor and Gilwhore.
In a nutshell all they wanted was to defame Syd?s talent.
And of course feeling bad about it later (you?ll hear it also in WYWH). Suckers

[burning_bridges]

Call me mad, but I'm glad it didn't spawn anything into the Top 40 loop. I'll always have a soft spot for this album - it was my first experience with solo Syd and it was what started a lifelong love - and preference - of him.