Sympathy for Roger Waters?

[oh by the way]

Stevie Wonder can make an album of music entirely on his own...Roger Waters cannot.

Which of the two has had an easier time?

Well...Stevie learned how to play instruments other than guitar.

You do the math.

Please explain this, as this is where you really lost me.

[mosespa]

1. You "might" rather go blind is an interesting line.

2. Most people that lose or not have a parent growing up do not spend decades curled up in the fetal position and not get on with their lives.

1. Yes, I "might," because I don't know...I've not been in that position to choose...and it's doubtful that I ever will be.

2. Know most of these people, do you?

Stevie Wonder can make an album of music entirely on his own...Roger Waters cannot.

Which of the two has had an easier time?

Well...Stevie learned how to play instruments other than guitar.

You do the math.

Please explain this, as this is where you really lost me.

Fair enough, I suppose.

The point that I was trying to make was this:

Stevie Wonder couldn't have been sitting around feeling sorry for himself for being blind if he spent his childhood/youth mastering all the instruments that he has indeed mastered.

Meanwhile, Roger Waters, with the same amount of youth/childhood available to him...only learned how to play guitar.

The implication being that I think Roger spent more time dwelling upon his problem rather than trying to overcome it.

Or perhaps the problem was (to him,) so much to overcome that perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky that he learned to play what he has.

Of course, I fully expect you to proclaim this line of thinking either "garbage" or "the product of an uneducated mind," so I don't really know why I'm bothering.

So I've been wrong in every characterazation of you so far?

I see that you're back in this discussion even though you obviously consider yourself intellectually superior to such a ludicrous notion as the trauma of emotional pain being equal to a physical handicap.

I even told you that I'd be talking to you soon...and I am.

[Geoff Wode]

If I went blind tomorrow I would commit suicide, no doubt about it.

However, my father passed away four years ago, and despite the fact I loved him very much and miss him every day, I am still alive.

I think I could cope a hell of a lot better with his passing than I could losing my sight.

[mosespa]

But aren't you overlooking the fact that, given time, you could adapt to being sightless and lead a fairly normal life?

I mean, to me, all this talk about the blind being so much more pitiable than someone who's lost a parent sounds a little...well...insulting, to be honest with you.

[kingfisher_flashing]

Stevie Wonder was born with the gift of music. It has brought him insurmountable joy and that is so evident in the way he performs.

I do not think Stevie Wonder sits about all day saying "Oh I'm blind", my life is over! He may be blind, but he still has the gift of hearing, and he has used that gift and his wonderful talent to make himself what he is today.

Roger Waters was an architectural student, and, like so many other musicians, started out with very little musical knowledge and worked his way from there. The first couple of years he was definitely "carried" by Syd Barrett and his whimsical, experimental genius. But unfortunately, after Syd unravelled and Dave Gilmour was introduced, Roger was left to his own devices more or less.

What Roger started to do was base his work on was past experiences - be it his father, Syd Barrett, the war, whatever. In my opinion, I do not see anything wrong with it. He used these foundations to produce some amazing music, and accompanied by an amazing band, they have proven to be one of the world's greatest bands. The record sales and the continuing fandom and discussions says it all.

Comparing Roger Waters to Stevie Wonder is like comparing apples and oranges.

Different strokes for different folks - that's how I look at it.

[mosespa]

Very well stated, KF...perhaps we can let this thread die now.

[Syd'sSexy]

Yes, Gina. Well said. She can always be counted on to provide a very well balanced discussion, whatever the subject matter might be.

[drafsack]

Have you ever seen Stevie Wonder's wife - well.......................................

[PublicImage]

Have you ever seen Stevie Wonder's wife - well.......................................

Hahaha, very fitting!

[Syd'sSexy]

What does she look like? Is the blindness a blessing or curse? I tend to think the former....

[snifferdog]

Not sure. She looks much prettier in the second photo (though their kid bears a startling resemblance to Arnold in Diff'rent Strokes)

[oh by the way]

1. You "might" rather go blind is an interesting line.

2. Most people that lose or not have a parent growing up do not spend decades curled up in the fetal position and not get on with their lives.

1. Yes, I "might," because I don't know...I've not been in that position to choose...and it's doubtful that I ever will be.

2. Know most of these people, do you?

Please explain this, as this is where you really lost me.

Fair enough, I suppose.

The point that I was trying to make was this:

Stevie Wonder couldn't have been sitting around feeling sorry for himself for being blind if he spent his childhood/youth mastering all the instruments that he has indeed mastered.

Meanwhile, Roger Waters, with the same amount of youth/childhood available to him...only learned how to play guitar.

The implication being that I think Roger spent more time dwelling upon his problem rather than trying to overcome it.

Or perhaps the problem was (to him,) so much to overcome that perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky that he learned to play what he has.

Of course, I fully expect you to proclaim this line of thinking either "garbage" or "the product of an uneducated mind," so I don't really know why I'm bothering.

So I've been wrong in every characterazation of you so far?

I see that you're back in this discussion even though you obviously consider yourself intellectually superior to such a ludicrous notion as the trauma of emotional pain being equal to a physical handicap.

I even told you that I'd be talking to you soon...and I am.

There are many emotional pains that are worse than physical handicaps. Losing a parent in comparison to being blind is not one of them. I had two friends over this weekend and the one that was deserted by his dad as an infant said losing his dad was worse. However, when I asked him who has overcome a bigger obstacle, Waters or Wonder, he said Stevie. When I asked him why his answer was different, he said it was too hard to detach his own life from the question. My other friend said being blind and said he would off himself if he went blind, like the above NPF member. I do not think anyone has said they would commit suicide if they lost a parent.
I was going to quit the thread until I read I got scared away because of mossification and the fact that your description of
me was incorrect. First of all, this is only the 2nd forum I have joined and my intent was not to cause trouble. As far as my education, my college years were spent smoking weed, drinking and occasionally studying. 75% of what I learned was garbage and I have forgotten most of the other 25%. College was a good way to prolong childhood and avoid joining the system for another 5 years. More than 90% of my knowledge has come from the strange and challenging path my life has taken me.
As far as you being right about me talking to you again, I have always thought small rifts should not come between good
friends.

[Yucateco]

If I went blind tomorrow I would commit suicide, no doubt about it.

oh please, this is so pathetic. I know quite a lot of blind people and they agree with me. You can be blind and still live a happy live! You would commit suicide if you go blind? What happens if you get diagnosed with cancer, HIV or something like that? Something were you are in pain all day?

[mosespa]

1. There are many emotional pains that are worse than physical handicaps. Losing a parent in comparison to being blind is not one of them.

2. I had two friends over this weekend and the one that was deserted by his dad as an infant said losing his dad was worse. However, when I asked him who has overcome a bigger obstacle, Waters or Wonder, he said Stevie. When I asked him why his answer was different, he said it was too hard to detach his own life from the question. My other friend said being blind and said he would off himself if he went blind, like the above NPF member. I do not think anyone has said they would commit suicide if they lost a parent.

3. I was going to quit the thread until I read I got scared away because of mossification and the fact that your description of
me was incorrect.

4. First of all, this is only the 2nd forum I have joined and my intent was not to cause trouble.

5. As far as my education, my college years were spent smoking weed, drinking and occasionally studying. 75% of what I learned was garbage and I have forgotten most of the other 25%. College was a good way to prolong childhood and avoid joining the system for another 5 years. More than 90% of my knowledge has come from the strange and challenging path my life has taken me.

6. As far as you being right about me talking to you again, I have always thought small rifts should not come between good
friends.

1. You say this with complete certainty as though it were a fact. It is not...it is only your opinion. You are neither blind, and you have apparently (notice that I said "apparently") not lost a parent.

Thus, you are completely unqualified to say which is worse, aren't you?

Just as I am.

2. Here, you fall back on collectivist tactics again. "I talked to a greater number of people than you and they agree with me and not you...therefore, you are wrong."

Once again, it was a majority who elected Hitler into power...it was a majority who sanctioned the release of Barabas the murderer over the release of Christ.

Just because you have numbers on your side doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. I don't listen to numbers.

3. I called you a collectivist...you continue to prove me right. I predicted your inability to drop out of this thread...I was right.

Anything else I said about you falls under the heading of "I can't prove it...and you can't disprove it."

Of course you can say that I was wrong about you...but I don't see you offering any evidence of my wrongness other than your word.

Due to your collectivist beliefs (as well as your unkind behaviour so far in this thread,) your WORD is insufficient. Your WORD is meaningless to me.

4. Damn...didn't stop you from doing it, though...did it?

5. So, why are you throwing your precious degree around as though it should mean something? Apparently, you own admission here states that it doesn't.

Why do you use this meaningless piece of paper to tout your intellectual superiority over anyone else who doesn't have one?

Answer: Because you are a product of an intellectual assembly line...and a collectivist.

Is this where I'm supposed to start calling you a "pot head" or an "alcoholic" as a means of trying to discredit you further? Why...doing that would only make me a hypocrite as I smoke weed daily and drink regularly on Tuesday nights.

You see, the thing is...I don't believe that you are a college graduate. I don't believe that you are old enough. Your behaviour reeks of a teenager who is trying to make himself appear to be something that he is not on a forum where no one knows who he really is.

And whether this is true or not...it's how I've come to see you.

Hell, I've been waiting for you to claim that you're either a psychology student taking part in an assignment that his instructor gave to start shit on a web board and note peoples responses...or that you have Autism/Aspberger's syndrome.

Everything else you've been doing has (whether you admit it or not) fallen squarely into a certain profile. The more responses that I've elicted from you, the more you fit into this profile.

6. Let me tell you something, I HAVE good friends. And they don't insult my education, my intellect or my view on things just because it doesn't line up with theirs.

You have done all of these things...therfore, you are no good friend of mine.

Nor do I have any interest in seeing you become one at this time.

[2066]

Sympathy for Roger Waters? I dunno...all I can think about right now is that Stevie Wonder's wife looks kinda yummy. I really dig black women...all that ageless, perfect brown skin. Am I off topic? Am I being shallow again?