My Rant

enigma00 · Post by **enigma00** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:39 pm

I've been thinking about this recently, and so I feel that I must share it with the rest of you, to spark some conversation and probably debate.

Okay, here goes:

I believe that while Roger Waters has every right to play Pink Floyd songs live (as he did co-write and -record them) I think that they don't sound nearly as good compared to the "new" PF, ie, on PULSE. The reason for this is, when Roger plays them, the only thing left from the real PF is his bass playing, and his voice. The rest is just hired musicians re-creating what Dave, Rick and Nick would play. To me, it doesn't have nearly the same quality as when Dave Rick and Nick play the same songs. Becuase, all they are missing is Roger's voice (which was only used occasionally anyway) and his bass playing (which, most will agree, was average).

So, to me, Roger Waters can play all the PF songs he wants in a live setting, but it is nothing more than a cover band fronted by him.

End rant. Thank you.

I think this will spark some good conversation.

CHR15 · Post by **CHR15** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 11:17 pm

I prefer Roger to the new Pink Floyd because it seems to me that he captures the emotion and feeling behind the music more. He really seems to make a connection with the audiance. Since he did do the bulk of the writing and lyrics I feel he has a better understanding of the songs. The new Pink Floyd doesn't really seem to care about the lyrics as much. You could also call them somewhat of a cover band since alot of the songs they're playing Roger wrote. His voice is missing from the new Pink Floyd. Songs like Shine On, Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick In The Wall, Brain Damage Eclipse... some of the greatest floyd songs just don't sound right without Roger. His parts sound like they're are being sung by a robot. And it seems to me that he sung about half of the songs atleast. It was not only used ocasionally. I also think Davids voice is missing from Roger's live show too. But I feel having no Roger is worse since David mostly sung lyrics that Roger wrote. So it sounds more honest when it comes from Roger.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:15 am

I enjoyed your post enigma00, but just a few things..

You said Rogers voice was only occasionaly used in PF - well I think you'll find that he sang more songs than Dave.

Also when using words like 'recreating' and 'hired musicians' - you have to realize that applies to the new Pink Floyd as well as to Roger. And I personally find it strange to call his band a 'cover band fronted by him' since he's not calling himself Pink Floyd! He's trying and succeeding to be Roger Waters..

The tradgedy is that Pink Floyd as we know and love probably died after The Wall. However since then we've been blessed with two versions - two renditions of the same spirit. Let's love 'em both..

I understand people having pops at Roger, and to Dave. But at the end of the day - if we try to enjoy them both for what they are, surely we'll get twice as much out of it..

I'm souding like an idealist now!! Please don't flame me

Cheers...

enigma00 · Post by **enigma00** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:58 am

Yeah, I will agree that Roger's voice was used more than I said. But, I think that though the new Floyd do use hired musicians as well, they still have the PRIMARY elements of the Floyd, Dave, Rick and Nick. However, the new floyd only played a couple of songs that were written ENTIRELY by Roger (according to the album credits anyway). And yes, he did help co-write the rest of them (save DB and MLOR songs of course) but thats hust it, CO-WRITE.

And by my "cover band" remark I meant that it sounds like a cover band playing Floyd songs, not that it actually is or is trying to be.

And I guess since I do prefer David's voice to Roger's, I guess I am a little biased when it comes to the voice issue.

Thanks for replying!

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:07 am

Hey no probs - I can see why you prefer Daves voice to Rogers.. it's certainly more smooth

I find myself sitting on the fence a lot these days - I never used to! It can be quite painful actually! I must get some cream for it

In The Flesh? · Post by **In The Flesh?** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:03 am

Neil wrote: The tradgedy is that Pink Floyd as we know and love probably died after The Wall. However since then we've been blessed with two versions - two renditions of the same spirit. Let's love 'em both..

I understand people having pops at Roger, and to Dave. But at the end of the day - if we try to enjoy them both for what they are, surely we'll get twice as much out of it..

I'm souding like an idealist now!! Please don't flame me
Cheers...

I'll join Neil, and sit on the fence. I really enjoy both what post Waters Floyd, and what Roger himself have done since the split. I a happy that we can hear, and enjoy two versions of "Pink Floyd", since I do believe it was a true partnership, and no one piece had more to do with it then the other. I also hold Mr. Waters solo work, MLOR, and TDB in high esteem and see them all a equally beautiful works.

-Dani

Post by **Keith Jordan** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:33 am

Mr Waters used Pink Floyd as a vehicle for his songs and it all sounded great. Nice. Anyway, does Roger play any songs that only Gilmour wrote? Or are they all his own? If he penned them himself, how can he be a coverband?

Meddler · Post by **Meddler** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 7:33 am

Its funny how the fued between Dave and Roger is still going strong, especially with their greatest fans!

. We love them so much we must take sides and discuss (I was going to say argue but, we really aren't).

To me Pink Floyd were two major things: Lyrics, and Music. (I guess thats true to any band but anyway) Roger has most of the Lyrics while Dave has most of the Music (guitar). I hate to sit on fences, but to me the only thing that doesn't feel right about Roger playing live Floyd songs is when the guitar solo hits. It just doesn't feel the same. "I don't even know that guy." I feel cheated. I feel, as most of you probably do, like I know Pink Floyd. I don't know some young guy who plays his strings upside down and chews gum while playing guitar. (Which one does on Rogers latest DVD, he's wearing black clothes, and dark hair) So along with the show... Roger can put on an awesome show, as well can David and gang. I just feel more comfortable watching Daves. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

David Smith · Post by **David Smith** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:24 am

Have to say Dave has the right to play most of the songs he does. Look at the PULSE track listing

Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts 1-10)
Astronomy Domine
What Do You Want From Me?
Learning To Fly
Keep Talking
Coming Back To Life
Hey You
A Great Day For Freedom
Sorrow
High Hopes
Another Brick In The Wall (Part 2)
Disc 2

Speak To Me
Breathe
On The Run
Time
The Great Gig In They Sky
Money
Us & Them
Any Colour You Like
Brain Damage
Eclipse
Wish You Were Here
Comfortably Numb
Run Like Hell

Correct me if i'm wrong but only one of those songs was purely written by Roger, that being Money which they could hardly miss when doing DSOTM live. Even if Dave didn't write the lyrics he wrote the guitar parts for the songs and that's just as important unless you put concept over music or mind over matter.

SomeGhostsStepOut · Post by **SomeGhostsStepOut** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:35 pm

Correct me if i'm wrong but only one of those songs was purely written by Roger, that being Money which they could hardly miss when doing DSOTM live. Even if Dave didn't write the lyrics he wrote the guitar parts for the songs and that's just as important unless you put concept over music or mind over matter.

Good Point, David.

Pugs on the Wing · Post by **Pugs on the Wing** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:15 pm

CHR15 wrote:I prefer Roger to the new Pink Floyd because it seems to me that he captures the emotion and feeling behind the music more. He really seems to make a connection with the audiance. Since he did do the bulk of the writing and lyrics I feel he has a better understanding of the songs. The new Pink Floyd doesn't really seem to care about the lyrics as much. You could also call them somewhat of a cover band since alot of the songs they're playing Roger wrote. His voice is missing from the new Pink Floyd. Songs like Shine On, Comfortably Numb, Run Like Hell, Another Brick In The Wall, Brain Damage Eclipse... some of the greatest floyd songs just don't sound right without Roger. His parts sound like they're are being sung by a robot. And it seems to me that he sung about half of the songs atleast. It was not only used ocasionally. I also think Davids voice is missing from Roger's live show too. But I feel having no Roger is worse since David mostly sung lyrics that Roger wrote. So it sounds more honest when it comes from Roger.

Neil wrote:You said Rogers voice was only occasionaly used in PF - well I think you'll find that he sang more songs than Dave.

Also when using words like 'recreating' and 'hired musicians' - you have to realize that applies to the new Pink Floyd as well as to Roger. And I personally find it strange to call his band a 'cover band fronted by him' since he's not calling himself Pink Floyd! He's trying and succeeding to be Roger Waters.

Keith Jordan wrote:Mr Waters used Pink Floyd as a vehicle for his songs and it all sounded great. Nice. Anyway, does Roger play any songs that only Gilmour wrote? Or are they all his own? If he penned them himself, how can he be a coverband?

Word.

CHR15 · Post by **CHR15** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 11:40 pm

THere were a fews songs on that list written exclusively by Waters which I believe include Brain Damage, Eclipse, Another Brick In the Wall, and Money.

Meddler wrote: I hate to sit on fences, but to me the only thing that doesn't feel right about Roger playing live Floyd songs is when the guitar solo hits. It just doesn't feel the same. "I don't even know that guy." I feel cheated. I feel, as most of you probably do, like I know Pink Floyd. I don't know some young guy who plays his strings upside down and chews gum while playing guitar. (Which one does on Rogers latest DVD, he's wearing black clothes, and dark hair) So along with the show... Roger can put on an awesome show, as well can David and gang. I just feel more comfortable watching Daves. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

I feel the same cheated feeling that you do when I see a guy singing Roger's part casualy like he doesn't even care what the song is about who is chewing gum and reading off a paper at the same time. I also don't think it is right to say that David was the Music and Roger was the lyrics. Since Roger did many of the original demos. He was a large part of the music.

Real Pink in the Inside · Thu Jun 05, 2003 11:58 pm

Meddler wrote: Roger has most of the Lyrics while Dave has most of the Music (guitar).

*Sigh*

And I suppose George Harrison "had" most of the music in The Beatles simply because he was their lead guitarist? Come on...

I hate to sit on fences, but to me the only thing that doesn't feel right about Roger playing live Floyd songs is when the guitar solo hits. It just doesn't feel the same. "I don't even know that guy." I feel cheated. I feel, as most of you probably do, like I know Pink Floyd. I don't know some young guy who plays his strings upside down and chews gum while playing guitar.

When Roger Waters plays live he uses his own name. Why did you expect to hear David playing with Roger Waters at a Roger Waters show? PWPF, on the other hand, claim to be Pink Floyd and play songs Roger wrote, but Roger is no longer a part of the band. Any way you slice or dice it, it is a sham.

Zepeleptic · Post by **Zepeleptic** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:13 am

Great Point Real Pink, i personally enjoy David Gilmour's voice better, but that doesnt mean that they can both play the songs, they both have their names on the old albums, so they both have a share of publicity and rights.

enigma00 · Post by **enigma00** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:18 am

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
When Roger Waters plays live he uses his own name. Why did you expect to hear David playing with Roger Waters at a Roger Waters show? PWPF, on the other hand, claim to be Pink Floyd and play songs Roger wrote, but Roger is no longer a part of the band. Any way you slice or dice it, it is a sham.

I wouldnt call it a sham really. And I know Waters uses his own name (why wouldn't he?) he but it just doesn't seem right to hear the music of Pink Floyd not played by the actual guys. It doesn't matter that Waters wrote alot of it..I'm not denying he has the right to play those songs, I'm just saying that to me, it doesn't seem right.

I hate to sit on fences, but to me the only thing that doesn't feel right about Roger playing live Floyd songs is when the guitar solo hits. It just doesn't feel the same

I agree. It just doesn't seem right with dave not playing it. Same with "Shine On" those synth solos just aren't the same with some guy I don't even know or care about playing them.

Anyway, like I said, I don't dispute that he has the right to play PF songs....he has the same right to play them as the other 3 do. I'm just saying, to me, as a fan, it doesn't sound or seem right when it's mostly hired guys I don't know doing the playing.

Great discussion guys!