My Rant

CHR15 · Post by **CHR15** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:45 am

enigma00 wrote:
but it just doesn't seem right to hear the music of Pink Floyd not played by the actual guys. It doesn't matter that Waters wrote alot of it..I'm not denying he has the right to play those songs, I'm just saying that to me, it doesn't seem right.

You seem quite comfortable without Roger. Wasn't he one of the actually guys too. I say your arguement is flaud. As said before the new Pink Floyd uses lot's of people that arn't the "actual guys" as well. I don't mean any offence, but your writing gives me the impression that you don't care for Roger that much, atleast not as much as the other members. So why don't you just admit that that is the case and stop using an arguement that doesn't make sence.

Real Pink in the Inside · Fri Jun 06, 2003 2:02 am

enigma00 wrote:
Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
When Roger Waters plays live he uses his own name. Why did you expect to hear David playing with Roger Waters at a Roger Waters show? PWPF, on the other hand, claim to be Pink Floyd and play songs Roger wrote, but Roger is no longer a part of the band. Any way you slice or dice it, it is a sham.
I wouldnt call it a sham really. And I know Waters uses his own name (why wouldn't he?) he but it just doesn't seem right to hear the music of Pink Floyd not played by the actual guys.

Who do you think you are hearing on PULSE? Do you think Roger Waters was not a part of Pink Floyd or something?

For crying out loud, Roger was the primary songwriter, lyricist, vocalist and bassist.

It doesn't matter that Waters wrote alot of i..I'm not denying he has the right to play those songs, I'm just saying that to me, it doesn't seem right.

What does not seem right to me is Richard Wright, Nick Mason, and David Gilmour performing, for example, Brain Damage, a song Roger Waters wrote entirely on his own and sang on DSOTM, under the banner PINK FLOYD. We all realize Gilmour and Co. had the legal authority to do what they did, but I think they should have, at the very least, showed a bit of truthfulness and played mostly songs from the three-piece Pink Floyd albums! (For the MLOR Tour, they could have played all of MLOR and a few of the classic, must-play songs. For the DB Tour, they could have played all of DB and MLOR, along with CN and WYWH)

I agree. It just doesn't seem right with dave not playing it.

If you ask me, "it just doesn't seem completely right" unless all four of them are playing on stage together. Neither side is truly the Pink Floyd that was once a powerhouse. However, Roger does not claim to be Pink Floyd when he performs live. That is the difference. It seems quite silly to hear a Roger Waters concert and complain about David or whoever not being a part of the show. You knew what you were going to get, and that is a ROGER WATERS concert. On the other hand, if you listen to a "Pink Floyd" show from the DB or MLOR Tour, it seems quite rational to complain about Roger's absence. After all, you are not TRULY getting what you were promised (i.e., PINK FLOYD!)

CHR15 · Post by **CHR15** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 2:18 am

I am in total agreement with everything you've just said.

In The Flesh? · Post by **In The Flesh?** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:41 am

Like I said earlier, I enjoy both PWPF, and Roger Waters. They have both come very far in their work since they split.

I do have to say in PWPF's defense, they aren't trying to deny that Roger had a large part in any of those songs mentioned. Also, during the Pulse tour they only played Brain Damage when playing DSOTM as an album, which they ALL greatly contributed to, and David Gilmour at the end does thank Roger.

Also in Mr. Waters defense in recent interviews he has given credit to the other members of Pink Floyd for their contributions.

I don't think either side is trying to hide anything. What you get is what you get. Either you except that, or don't pay attention to anything that they do post The Final Cut, or The Wall, whichever way you see that.

Please, no body take offense to this. It's just that this is an argument which will never reach a resolution.
-Dani

David Smith · Post by **David Smith** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:38 pm

I'd like to say first IMO that i agree with the principles of PWPF but it is just a classic example of how to ruin a band, really TFC should have been the last album IMO.

Though i would say with live shows PWPF are quite good, on their 2 live albums there's one song Waters wrote alone. Now you could point out Roger wrote the lyrics but esentially what they're doing is stealing lyrics and ocasionally changing a singer, on both live cds combined there's 4 songs (Shine On, BD, Eclipse and RLH) that were purely sang by Roger with and 3 duets (CN, HY and ABITW2) now being done by Dave, Rick and the ugly bassist. On all these songs Dave had a writing credit.

If anyone wants to correct this figure then do so, but if i went to see a Pink Floyd show and didn't get to see Shine On because Dave didn't write or sing the lyrics then i would consider it unreasonable being that the song is credited to all 4 members. Essentially they were just playing fans the songs they wanted to hear and while you could question the morals of them doing Money or anything of the wall it must be remembers that the rest of the band have even said they don't care much about lyrics.

On ITF Roger sings 8 songs that credit Dave, Nick and Rick, 7 of which Dave originally sang or was part of a duet in. So although he does no purely Gilmour songs he makes up for it by the amount of shared credit songs he does, and his one complete credit was sang by Dave anyway. Of the Waters songs 3 were originally sang by Dave with 5 being duets, one of which (time) didn't feature him originally and was credited to all 4 members.

So in this case Roger replaces Dave's singing more often than Dave replaces Rogers. There's also less tracks on ITF than there is one TDSOT and Pulse combined.

Intresting no? To all those people who claim "post waters PF just sing Roger's songs."

Except 1 song (2 if you count AD, but because this version is so different i don't) Dave, Rick or Nick had a writing credit on every track of DSOT and Pulse replacing Roger's vocals on 8 songs. On ITF Roger replaced Dave's voice on 9 songs. ITF also had less songs than the 2 PWPF albums combined.

On the wall live in Berlin he did 4 songs of which had shared credits and replaced dave's voice on 6 trakcs, 1 of which was purely sang by Dave.

So if you think about it essentially each band is doing the same thing, doing songs they didn't receive full credits for and replacing the missing member with someone else. It's just on more occasions Roger replaces Dave, Nick and Rick as far as credits go and replaces Dave more as far as vocals go to. It also must be mentioned that nobody in Pink Floyd except Roger cared about lyrics very much either and just wanted to play the songs they did music for.

enigma00 · Post by **enigma00** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:05 pm

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
If you ask me, "it just doesn't seem completely right" unless all four of them are playing on stage together. Neither side is truly the Pink Floyd that was once a powerhouse. However, Roger does not claim to be Pink Floyd when he performs live. That is the difference. It seems quite silly to hear a Roger Waters concert and complain about David or whoever not being a part of the show. You knew what you were going to get, and that is a ROGER WATERS concert. On the other hand, if you listen to a "Pink Floyd" show from the DB or MLOR Tour, it seems quite rational to complain about Roger's absence. After all, you are not TRULY getting what you were promised (i.e., PINK FLOYD!)

I very much agree with that.

See, alot of you are getting confused. Yes, I know that Gilmour and Co. use hired musicians as well, but NOT AS THE ENTIRE BASIS OF THE MUSIC. Do you see what I mean? Three original members are still playing parts that THEY wrote....

Well, if Gilmour/Mason/Wright shouldn't play Brain Damage and Eclipse, then maybe Waters shouldn't play the parts of "Shine On" live that were written entirely by Rick Wright, like Part 9 for example. It has to go both ways.

Yes, you are right in saying that I don't like Roger all that much. However, I do know know and appreciate that he was a brilliant lyricist, a gifted songwriter, and a very emotive singer. Remember though, that he did not write 100% of the PF material. Alot of it (especially the stuff played on the DB tour) was co-written stuff, save for "Hey You", "ABITW2", "Brain Damage" and "Eclipse".

I may not like Waters much, but I do think he is a brillaint and gifted man. In fact, becuase of our little debate, I've researched more about him, and hes not nearly as much of a jerk as I thought he was....but still, I maintain what I said.

Wow..I never thought this thread would get this much attention!

Real Pink in the Inside · Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:18 pm

enigma00 wrote: Well, if Gilmour/Mason/Wright shouldn't play Brain Damage and Eclipse, then maybe Waters shouldn't play the parts of "Shine On" live that were written entirely by Rick Wright, like Part 9 for example.

Roger did not play Part IX on his ITF Tours. In fact, I do not think he has EVER played it live under his own banner. That is the ONLY part of SOYCD that was written solely by Rick.

Part I - Wright/Waters/Gilmour
Part II - Gilmour/Waters/Wright
Part III - Waters/Gilmour/Wright
Part IV - Gilmour/Wright/Waters
Part V - Waters
Part VI - Wright/Waters/Gilmour
Part VII - Waters/Gilmour/Wright
Part VIII - Gilmour/Wright/Waters
Part IX - Wright

Yes, you are right in saying that I don't like Roger all that much.

Why?

In fact, becuase of our little debate, I've researched more about him, and hes not nearly as much of a jerk as I thought he was....

I'm glad to hear that

I think these debates improve the online Pink Floyd community.

CHR15 · Post by **CHR15** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:18 pm

David Smith wrote: So in this case Roger replaces Dave's singing more often than Dave replaces Rogers. There's also less tracks on ITF than there is one TDSOT and Pulse combined.

I have less problem with Roger singing parts that David originally sung since Roger was the one that wrote the lyrics, so they still sound honest like he actuallty cares about what the songs mean. Weren't most of the parts originally sung by david written by Roger anyway, but they got dave to sing them because his voice fit the song better. So I wouldn't call it a Dayve song just because he's the one singing it. Just my opinion anyway.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:28 pm

CHR15 wrote:I have less problem with Roger singing parts that David originally sung since Roger was the one that wrote the lyrics, so they still sound honest like he actuallty cares about what the songs mean

I'm sure that Dave cares about the words too on some level, even though he didn't write them..
But I do agree that I have less problem with Rog singing songs that Dave originaly sang, rather than the other way round..

CHR15 · Post by **CHR15** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:42 am

Neil wrote:
CHR15 wrote:I have less problem with Roger singing parts that David originally sung since Roger was the one that wrote the lyrics, so they still sound honest like he actuallty cares about what the songs mean
I'm sure that Dave cares about the words too on some level, even though he didn't write them..
But I do agree that I have less problem with Rog singing songs that Dave originaly sang, rather than the other way round..

I would think he cares about some of the lyrics too. Like the stuff off Wish You Were Here. I'm sure he would still have strong feelings about Syd. But just from some interviews I've read with him I get the impression that he thinks alot of it is rubbish.

pizzaman · Post by **pizzaman** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:54 am

Good question. For me, I now listen to Roger Waters as Roger Waters not as an ex member of the Pink Floyd. My expectations are what is his next solo project not why isn't he with the Pink Floyd. (that would be a surprise)
When I saw Roger Waters in concert I was a little let down because I expected more from his solo career and got to much Pink Floyd. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed hearing his voice to the songs but that was then and this is now.
So I have to agree with Neil. I like to listen to Pink Floyd and I also enjoy listening to Roger Waters.

enigma00 · Post by **enigma00** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 3:14 am

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
enigma00 wrote: Well, if Gilmour/Mason/Wright shouldn't play Brain Damage and Eclipse, then maybe Waters shouldn't play the parts of "Shine On" live that were written entirely by Rick Wright, like Part 9 for example.
Roger did not play Part IX on his ITF Tours. In fact, I do not think he has EVER played it live under his own banner. That is the ONLY part of SOYCD that was written solely by Rick.

Part I - Wright/Waters/Gilmour
Part II - Gilmour/Waters/Wright
Part III - Waters/Gilmour/Wright
Part IV - Gilmour/Wright/Waters
Part V - Waters
Part VI - Wright/Waters/Gilmour
Part VII - Waters/Gilmour/Wright
Part VIII - Gilmour/Wright/Waters
Part IX - Wright

Hmm..I read something on the internet that said he played all 9 parts, but either way it was a pretty weak argument on my part.

Anyway, I too think that these discussions enrich the online PF community, and I think that I jumped to some conclusions about Roger Waters that I shouldn't have. Thank you all for your honesty and candor in this wonderful discussion.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:39 pm

I think both Pink Floyd3* and Roger Waters, have every right to sing what ever songs they choose from their time together. Some really great debates though!

*(3 memebers and 3rd 'reform' I don't like calling them Post Waters Pink Floyd)

Pugs on the Wing · Post by **Pugs on the Wing** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:51 pm

enigma00 wrote:In fact, becuase of our little debate, I've researched more about him, and hes not nearly as much of a jerk as I thought he was....

Just out of curiosity, what was it that you read or heard initially that caused you to think he was a jerk?

See, I've had the opposite reaction, and can't quite fathom *why* after reading/researching what I have, *why* people think he's as much of a jerk as he's set forth to be on the internet in the first place.

Of course, maybe my jerk-level is just set at a higher tolerance than most people's. After knowing all the *****s I've known in my life, I wouldn't doubt that.

Publius wrote:Pink Floyd3* *(3 memebers and 3rd 'reform' I don't like calling them Post Waters Pink Floyd)

Pink Floyd cubed!

Personally, I've always thought the name "Dehydrated Floyd" was quite ingenius, for whoever came up with that (if they're reading this...or not).

Meddler · Post by **Meddler** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:26 am

When I said Roger was the lyrics and David was the music, I wasn't being literal. I just ment that Roger contributed many great lyrics. And Dave much great guitar playing. And yes George Harrison was the driving force of music for the Beatles

JK... Anyway... I didn't want to make myself look dumber than I already ann

"Though they'll never fathom it behind my
Sarcasm desperate memories lie. "

-The Heros Return

My Rant

rant