2007 tour - Why must it be DSOTM again ?

akai · Post by **akai** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:11 am

Roger Waters on tour in 2007 again: Wow! But hasn't he already performed same songs and concept way for years since 87 ? I heard the slides should have been improved compared to last year but should that be like a Las Vegas show for people like me liking more underground elements such as individual pychedelic feeling ! And then the shows are this time mostly inside concert halls. I even now want the slides to have on DVD. But that's adream. Great what the production concerns when most of the places performing him are almost only for numbered seats. It's ok to sit on a comfortable seat again, but I would also would have liked to have the whole production more altered and not DSOTM as the overflyer again. With 'set the controls' as the oldest song live performed (forget the 'arnold layne' video), why is Mr. Waters never taking up stuff from his first solo album THE BODY ? With 'give birth to a smile' combined with a fine visual effects i.e. he could enthusiase many kidless people these days, as also only few people know that the musical soundtrack contribution on the same named film is actually for a medicinal documentary concerning human birth. If he'd play 'embryo' appropriate visual aspects would be a obligatory must. These tracks could be perfomed in same psychedlic style as 'set the controls", and so why is there this time once again no altered creative concept vision ? Is it a question of laziness by Mr. Waters these days to do these usefull changes, 'which all make sense' ? Is it just an idea that he too old now for such unspectacular changes or are production changes in that category too expensive these days? If so why and how it developed in the past.

Anyway, I wish the old ditches between Mr. Waters, David Gilmour and Richard Wright away and that spaceship - let's say mark 69-72 - Floyd would be boarding on again as a bunch of friends like demonstrated on the rear side of the Piper At The Gates Of Dawn 67 album cover. (I know that they do not need to do it for the money now for a long time anymore, but of course it should always be in memory and for reminder to Syd who is their now late great early legacy on what psychedelic music should be about originally till to date! The early Syd-less and early Gilmour phase after the split marks of course an exciting one too. The professional musical timetable for Syd was too compressed combined with time consuming acid tests, so it didn't make sense for him anymore to be part of a commercial music industry. It is my imagination that after many people tried to crowd Mr. Bob Dylan privately as reported in his "Chronicles #1" biography, simmilar must have happened to Syd then.

A question which burns me on the tongue: Why did Roger Waters record and release Bob Dylan's 'knocking on haven's door' ? It is audible that Rogers's cover version is not of the same spirit and inspiration as Bob's original. If Roger is intoning the song different as Mr. Bob Dylan, why is he not changing the set list on his old days as Mr. Bob Dylan is doing always on his 'never ending tour' ? Why is Mr. Waters not pulling out interesting surprises off his hat? Would it be and if so when would it be? It would be it.

lovescene4 · Post by **lovescene4** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:24 am

Welcome--good points...

Post by **mosespa** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:39 am

Welcome to the forum.

Any answers to these questions would only be speculation...having said that:

The chief reason that Waters does not include the songs you name is actually very simple:

They are not very well known except among die-hard Pink Floyd fans.

Very few "casual fans" know about anything before DSOTM. It's the "casual fans" who buy the largest number of tickets to the show.

Set The Controls is probably only included because of it's inclusion in the In The Flesh tours.

It's telling that he took a chance seven/eight years ago by including that song...but isn't willing to take that chance another time with a different song.

In many interviews and books, all of the members of Pink Floyd have stated that they don't really consider their work before Meddle to be very significant. Perhaps that's why The Embryo may never be performed again.

To say nothing of Give Birth To A Smile. While it's true that the soundtrack to The Body was the first time Roger Waters went solo, the album was A.) a collaboration with another artist (never mind that they didn't actually work together on their individual songs and B.) not a very successful album.

I'm sure that at some point, someone sat down with Waters and told him something to the effect of "you have to play what the largest number of people want to hear...what these people know."

Hence, DSOTM and other more obvious songs.

Yucateco · Post by **Yucateco** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:04 pm

Why "again"? Its the first time ever Roger plays DSOTM.

FloydCouncil · Post by **FloydCouncil** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:06 pm

Maybe he enjoys playing it?

Post by **mosespa** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:39 pm

Yucateco wrote:Why "again"? Its the first time ever Roger plays DSOTM.

Yes, but I think the original question is one that I asked myself when I first heard about Roger's new tour:

Didn't Pink Floyd do that back in '94?

Does he really think he's going to be doing anything radically different with it?

Is he just trying to upstage PF?

fatoldbob · Post by **fatoldbob** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:25 pm

mosespa wrote:
Didn't Pink Floyd do that back in '94?

Does he really think he's going to be doing anything radically different with it?

Is he just trying to upstage PF?

If that was the goal then he failed. The PULSE DSoM was considerably better than the Waters version I saw.

I'd like to see Waters do the entire Animals album. To me, Animals is the beginning of the Waters solo career anyway. WYWH is the last true PF band composition where the contributions are balanced.

Post by **mosespa** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:31 pm

Really? Because I thought that DSOTM on PULSE sucked huge amounts of ass.

Eclipse was particularly WEAK.

Just my fifth of a dime, though.

akai · Post by **akai** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:32 pm

1: They are not very well known except among die-hard Pink Floyd fans.

2: Sounds like a Waters show should tease a majority of overcommercialised die-soft fans, who like to get always the same thing again! Why shouldn't they not be surprised by a wakeup call of 'alan's psychedelic breakfast' ?

1: Very few "casual fans" know about anything before DSOTM. It's the "casual fans" who buy the largest number of tickets to the show.

2: Agreed concerning Waters and Floyds anonymous mass popularity. And that is of course good that way, but a concept / song change would be less disappointing like the simmilarity of each show. And why should a majority of the audience crowd at a Waters show not be die-hard or casual fans like me and maybe you too anyway?

1: Set The Controls is probably only included because of it's inclusion in the In The Flesh tours.

2: Could be if the visual production was there already anyway and for other songs it was and still is missing.

1: It's telling that he took a chance seven/eight years ago by including that song...but isn't willing to take that chance another time with a different song.

2: He implaced 'set the controls' already on 84 and/or 87 tour setlist. So this song is a regular ongoing one.

1: In many interviews and books, all of the members of Pink Floyd have stated that they don't really consider their work before Meddle to be very significant. Perhaps that's why The Embryo may never be performed again.

2: They changed their mind to this popular believe at least for a certain time till now after the death of Syd Barrett. During the David Gilmour tour last year pre-Meddle songs like 'wot's the deal' and 'dominoes' and 'echoes' were played before Syd's death! Gilmour played 'dominoes' already a couple of times on previous Y2K shows. To me it showed something is possible as Gilmour lived there what he did. But Waters seems not to be able to change the set up of a mass audience production in a simmilar virtous way.

1: To say nothing of Give Birth To A Smile. While it's true that the soundtrack to The Body was the first time Roger Waters went solo, the album was A.) a collaboration with another artist (never mind that they didn't actually work together on their individual songs and B.) not a very successful album.

2: Sure. But my opinion still is that even uncommercial songs should be part of a mass production - a setlist with too many popularised songs can be boring once in a while. You certainly mean Ron Geesin. This other artist even did a song on Mr. Waters on one of his own records. He is the great craftsman behind AHM, another mass-unfriendly album as quoted in their
later carreer.

1: I'm sure that at some point, someone sat down with Waters and told him something to the effect of "you have to play what the largest number of people want to hear...what these people know."

2: Surely his manager - hopefully not the guys from the Wall movie at the pink doctor scene...

Hence, DSOTM and other more obvious songs.[/quote][quote][/quote]

cymbaline212 · Post by **cymbaline212** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:21 am

akai wrote:
1: In many interviews and books, all of the members of Pink Floyd have stated that they don't really consider their work before Meddle to be very significant. Perhaps that's why The Embryo may never be performed again.

2: They changed their mind to this popular believe at least for a certain time till now after the death of Syd Barrett. During the David Gilmour tour last year pre-Meddle songs like 'wot's the deal' and 'dominoes' and 'echoes' were played before Syd's death! Gilmour played 'dominoes' already a couple of times on previous Y2K shows. To me it showed something is possible as Gilmour lived there what he did. But Waters seems not to be able to change the set up of a mass audience production in a simmilar virtous way.

well wot's uh the deal is a post meddle song, dominoes isn't even a pink floyd song, and echoes is actually on meddle so none of those can be considered pre meddle floyd tunes.

akai · Post by **akai** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:51 am

1) well wot's uh the deal is a post meddle song,
2) true but Mr. Waters doesn't bring the same spirit across as Mr. Gilmour did - Mr. Waters should change his production.

1) dominoes isn't even a pink floyd song, and echoes is actually on meddle so none of those can be considered pre meddle floyd tunes.
2) If Meddle or not is not my main theme because it's not where I see the start of Waters or Floyd. If mass appeal or not I see a challenge in the future if Waters and Co. should start working out new material and leave the pre- and after-Meddle period material away as well as the Syd influenced period.

FloydCouncil · Post by **FloydCouncil** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:41 am

Hmm, I gotta agree with mossy on this. The PULSE DSOTM isn't very good, except for maybe Any Colour You Like. Roger's version is pretty good, but it obviously doesn't compare to the studio version.

Just my 2¢

Yucateco · Post by **Yucateco** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:55 am

mosespa wrote:
Yucateco wrote:Why "again"? Its the first time ever Roger plays DSOTM.
Yes, but I think the original question is one that I asked myself when I first heard about Roger's new tour:

Didn't Pink Floyd do that back in '94?

Yes, but 94 is already 13 (!) years ago... why not do it again for some fun

Post by **drafsack** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:29 am

in 94 they only played DSoTM a couple of times - Rog is playing it at every show. Rog's 2006 tour was only a mini tour - he only played one show in many europien countries - this ime he is doing more shows. This give more people chance to see it being played and for many the first time ever.

Just my 3p's worth (5 cents at the current exchange rate of 0.5096)

martin_nh · Post by **martin_nh** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:27 pm

mosespa wrote:
Yucateco wrote:Why "again"? Its the first time ever Roger plays DSOTM.
Yes, but I think the original question is one that I asked myself when I first heard about Roger's new tour:

Didn't Pink Floyd do that back in '94?

Does he really think he's going to be doing anything radically different with it?

Is he just trying to upstage PF?

Roger said that he wanted to do a Dark Side tour with David, Richard and Nick, but they didn't reunite, and Roger did it himself.