To all Pink Floyd tribute bands.................

[SurrogateJoe]

Hi

Well.... after the cancellation of the NPF Tribute, and subsequent fallout, i though i would pen a quick message.

What is the current state of play amongst all the tributes?

Where we are: The Surrogate Pink Floyd: We try and book about 4 gigs a month. Our average audience attendance is about 400....... though we have had a few gigs with very small audiences (about 40 to 80)... and a few with 500 to 600.
These gigs cost us a fair bit, we hire the hall (or do a 70/30 door split) and are out of pocket for advertising and promotions too. As a 7 piece band its a bloody nightmare keeping everyone together.... We have had over 20 members in and out the band so far (mostly in the last 2 years).
Luckily we have our own sound and lighting guys, and a manager so we dont have to pay those sort of costs.

I would reckon that after all of that, we dont make much money from doing a gig - most of it goes on expenses and buying new equipment. We charge about £10 a ticket, any more than that i feel is too much to ask for a tribute band...... after all, we are not the "real thing" so people should not be asked to pay £20 or whatever.

I do sometimes feel a bit awkward about the fact that we exist by playing entirely someone else's music..... and that the applause we get is not really to do with us, rightly so, its because people love the original music.
We do our best to give people a good show, musically and theatrically, and we do get some great reactions from people, but its always in my head that im just copying David Gilmour..... ok, i do a little of my own in the playing i do - but that sounds like Gilmour too

Its weird when i see so many other PF tributes...... all saying they are the best in the world/UK/US/Germany etc.... and all doing much the same songs, in the same style... some use backing tracks and sequencers, some dont..... some use 2 guitars/2 keyboard players/2 drummers/3 backing singers etc.... some try and do it with the original 4 man PF line-up. Obviously there is a demand for the music, but it keeps niggling me that i really should be doing something more productive with my musical career.

Fights and rivalries keep breaking out between all the tributes, mostly due to money (ie - those other bands are stealing our audience, we would make more money if the went away), and its all so bloody sad really. We are all PF fans, we do this cos we love the music, but in the end it still comes down to making money (or losing money in my case) and ego and our own greed...... if im being honest.

I tried to make the band a "collective" at one stage and hired singers/drummers/sax players from other PF tributes, but it was too expensive to pay the wages people expected for doing this and difficult to organise. However, i do feel that this might be the best way to maintain the "moral high ground" and make myself feel better
By using people from other PF tributes, it would stop so much in fighting, if the bands all worked together we could make sure we didnt clash on dates or locations..... help each other when people left or couldnt make gigs.... promote each other by way of a sort of generic PINK FLOYD tribute sort of advertising and so forth, yes, its utopian and idealistic, but surely its the best way.

Anyhoo........ im talking rubbish here. I guess that im being niaive to an extent. We have our own rivals up here in Scotland, and we've been fighting each other for years..... its all a bit petty. And looking at the history of the other bands who post here it seems to be much the same. The weird thing is that i would never dream of going to see a PF tribute myself as i would feel cheated and be too critical, how hypocrytical is that
My message is really, why dont we all take a step back and look at ourselves....... we're all just copycats and wannabes, so, in the spirit of that, we really should stop trying to outdo each other all the time and just get along and help each other out.......

rant out

Joe

[W1P]

Since 2002, I have been Moderator of the "Pink Floyd Tribute Bands And Covers" Forum at Pink Floyd Online. I also am the manager of Which One's Pink? I have found that the participation we have from Floyd tributes and their fans has, by and large, been very positive. I think fans of these various bands get carried away sometimes vigorously promoting their favorite Floyd tribute as "the best," and taking it personally whenever someone claims that THEIR favorite is the best. But I believe that even these excesses are motivated by love and loyalty and that they are really not intended as petty jealously or rivalry (even though it comes off like that some times). As for direct relationships and/or competition among Floyd tribute bands themselves, I've seen very little of that in our little tribute band forum. Maybe that's because a given band that might be inclined to "battle" other Floyd tributes publicly would not choose to participate in our forum (and if they did, I would halt any flame wars, etc. that might erupt).

That having been said, we have no problem with people coming to our forum and supporting their bands to the nth degree -- that's why we're here. We also have no problem with people giving reviews -- negative and positive -- of any band they've actually seen. We do discourage people from coming in the forum and posting negative stuff about specific tributes or tributes generally if the poster has not actually seen the bands they are commenting upon.

All in all, I'd say the relationship among Pink Floyd tributes is pretty positive and has resulted in lots of online friendships among tribute bands and their supporters. After all, we all have one thing in common that we should never lose sight of -- we love Pink Floyd and that's why we are in or support Pink Floyd tributes!

[Floyd Factor]

Floyd Factor's experience in our first year has been, well, fairly challenging. We've had a founding member completely lose his marbles, quit right before a gig, and then harrass the band for months(!). Our drummer broke his collarbone, a few ribs, and dislocated his shoulder. We had to rebuiold an entire show, with video. And electrical BS in a rehearsal studio fried a brand new Hammond XK2... Etc.

Yet still, we're in better shape today than ever, and it's been a great year for the band. The personnel issues are behind us, and we have a very happy, family-like project that everyone is committed to. And no one is in it for the bucks now, and the money is generally AWFUL in Canada (for tribute gigs - it's nonexistent for original acts). We are producing some of our own shows now, and will probably have to do more in the future, because there are so few viable club/festival venues left here.

Southern Ontario is a very competitive market bewteen the PF tributes who service it. Which means we're travelling further to do quality venues. The other bands are very territorial about the venues/markets they work in, and that's fine. But if this was a regular business, and we were profit driven, this would be an impossible mess in the first year. Honestly, I don't know how some of the other bands make it work when they're hauling in thousands of dollars worth of lights & video... Even though they're charging $30-$60 for some of those shows here, the production for a PF show is a big nut that other tributes don't have to cover, never mind the gear. A fact which I am tired of trying to explain to club owners here.... ) Our stage concept allows us to avoid some of those costs, which is not a coincidence.

The booking agent business here is pretty messed up, too. But that's a whole other story...

Summer ticket sales for anything not outdoors is always a bit tough anywhere, but Toronto is just hopeless this time of year. No one is here... and there's 10,000 things to do. Us poor Canadians have to squeeze 12 months of fun into 10 weeks of good weather, so maybe it's a cultural thing... LOL!

But as hard as it's been to work steadily, we are broadening our horizons all the time, and we're looking forward to getting to Montreal next, at the Six Flags La Ronde park ampitheatre on Aug. 17th. Finally some outdoor gigs in August!

Good luck to all the bands carrying the torch out there this summer, and sorry to hear about the NPF Festival cancellation. It can happen to anyone... Kudos to the two bands (Breathe & ??) who are putting a show on there for the people who made plans.

Steve B. - Floyd Factor, Toronto http://www.floydfactor.com

[SurrogateJoe]

Im happy to hear that most of hte bands are getting on fine
I suppose the main problem comes when you have a few tributes operating the same geographical area.

Costs: Yeah, shocking..... We have spent about £2000 on new lights in the last year, including the screen and lasers etc... and Greg (our lighting guy) has even more to buy.
Our PA is a bottomless pit for money...... but at least its now at the stage where we can play most theatres in the UK (we have a 12k rig, with all the toys and gadgets i dont understand).

Members: We most recently lost our drummer, who is now in jail, and luckily found a new guy pretty quickly. We have been through about 5 bass players and 4 singers, 4 backing singers, 2 sax players and we are on our third drummer. Only myself and the keyboard player are the original members from 7 years ago.

The recent issue with the NPF tribute show did highlight the negative side of the tribute game....
I feel that the venue was the problem here (i could be wrong...... not the first time), you see, poeple want to go see a Floyd tribute in a suitable venue, somewhere large and locally important - so it has to be Town Halls, theatres and large live music arenas, i for one would be dubious about going to an event at the "Cheese and Grain" or whatever, or even at "Jumpin Jaks" where we held the Glasgow one last year (not the venues fault i should add, who were great to us).......this could explain the poor ticket sales. We noticed this a lot, we used to play some of the big nightclubs up here and they were always a disaster, likewise, any of the known pubs and clubs that put bands on were never good events either.... however, when we started doing only theatres and major venues, the ticket sales went up. People are pretty much of the opinion "if its in a big, important venue, then its going to be good..... if its in the local pub/club/lounge, then its going to be amateur, a bunch of guys messing about, im not paying £10 to see that".....

[darkside_andy]

Hi All, Darkside here.

I guess in some ways we are a little different. Firstly the band members have all been friends for a considerable time and so thankfully we have had no line up changes at all, which definitely helps. Secondly and from the outset, we have aimed to play just once per month with a 'no pubs' rule as we all have pretty demanding day jobs and also it keeps it fresh for us. Thirdly, and agreeing with Joe, we focus on interesting and good quality venues rather than the 'usual' places where to be frank, unless you are prepared to bull**** for Britain you probably aren't going to dislodge the 'resident' Floyd tribute. By insisting on directing our own shows with our own crew (also lifelong friends) we have had much more control on the overall production values of the show Finally some of us are old enough to have seen Floyd in the classic line up and can remember what those shows were like and so we don't try and recreate Pulse, we don't stick entirely to the script and we do include some of the earlier and quirkier stuff on the basis that if we are enjoying it, that will rub off on the audience.

As far as the bottomless financial pit is concerned, that sounds very familiar.

[darkside_andy]

Just a brief note to say the description I gave is of where Darkside is at and was not intended to slight or belittle anyone, just simply a statement about how we approach things and what works for us. We do this for fun because we are all die hard fans and we see performing Floyd music as just another way of enjoying and sharing this great music.

[SurrogateJoe]

Great, loving the opinions so far

Regarding lineups (not in a Jodie Marsh style..... you know what i mean), the original line-up we had was all friends too.... but the strains of the band, and other factors (people moving away, getting married, splitting up, and in our case, catching life threatening illnesses) meant we had to keep altering things.

filthyfish: While i agree that i too have seen better bands in my local pub than i have at T in The Park/Glastonbury/V fest/Wembley etc.... its all to do with perception - the majority of people who come to see a PF tribute will automatically assume that band X who are playing in the big local theatre and much much better than band Y who are playing at the "Duck and Pond" or whatever... Thats the evidence of our 7 year history.
Also.... people expect to see a show, it doesn't have to be expensive, but it has to be atmospheric and suitable to the music.... we now have a fairly extensive lighting set up, but we also have a singer who is FANTASTIC when it comes to getting on with the audience, and the rest of us are pretty good at chatting and having fun on stage too, which the audiences seem to appreciate.

We try and do odd songs and altered versions (Pigs on the wing, Fearless, improvised versions of Any Colour you Like and Money etc....) which go down well.

Like DarkSide, we are first and foremost huge Floyd fans...... im not as old as any of them (not many people are), so cant remember Floyd pre Momentary, but have seen the Delicate and Pulse tours when they were on the go, and have seen Gilmour live... But the biggest help is listening to the old bootlegs...... where you pick up the real live sound of Floyd, and the magic they had on stage... its not about note for note renditions, its about feel, and exploring a bit with the music.

[Floyd Factor]

This is a very enlightening & interesting string here...

I have to be careful with what I say here I guess, but the reality that we're living with here in Toronto is exactly what you mentioned above.

For 10+ years here, there were only two steady working PF tribs here in Ontario. Unfortunately, these bands took opposite approaches to the music, and put on many shows that turned a lot of area PF fans off. As of today, one is an expensive semi-touring act, who overcharges badly - and the other continues to play the same clubs here they always have, putting on a horrifically lazy attempt at the music, and playing for near-dirt money.

Does that hurt us, a first-year project with radically different sound that these local bands? You betcha it does! Everywhere we go, the first thing we find ourselves doing is trying to explain to some propective client or venue how we are NOT the same kind of product as these other bands. Or, trying to explain why we charge more than the lazy club band... Two extremes, expensive to bad, and here we are in the middle.

And the touring band regularly books multiple dates at a concert hall here (who will not take our money for the same venue, because we're a competing act), and then charges almost $40 per ticket (G/A, no seats, standing only). And just about any true Floyd fan who pays to see that show leaves feeling kind of ripped off, because they sound like a bar band, but charge like they're the Aussie show... How many of those people would then go buy a Floyd Factor ticket, on spec? Not too many, and I can't blame 'em.

So yeah, what the other bands have been doing has hurt what we're trying to do, a lot. There are many venues who won't even check us out or talk to us, and many fans who have seen substandard shows and been burned once. If it were not for YouTube, MySpace, and other media outlets, we'd still be mostly unknown in our own market. Actually, we have received SO much support & encouragement from PF fans in other countries, which has been a huge boost for the band when we've felt anonymous at home.

Could we not all just get along locally, be friendly, and let everyone do their thing? Sure! That's what we had initially hoped would be the case. But these other bands seem to resent us for existing on their turf, and they have been the ONLY Floyd tribs in the larger region whom we haven't touched base & made friends with. The distant bands have been very nice, and not over-competitive at all. But since these two bands apparently see us as a threat or something, and they were here first, we just let them do their thing - we'll do different stuff. Eventually, all the PF fans here will know about us, and they can decide for themselves what's good & what isn't. But in the meantime, we have to live with what came before us, every day.

We let the music do the talking, and trust PF fans to use their ears, eyes, and wallets figure out what's what. In July 2008, I'll tell you if it's working or not.... LOL!!

Thanks for the discourse - it's comforting to know that we are not alone in struggling with some of these issues. Here's hoping everyone finds the audience they're looking for.

Steve B. - Floyd Factor, Toronto
http://www.floydfactor.com

PS - We're old enough to have seen the real Floyd too, and BOY are we ever NOT trying to do the Pulse version of this show... http://www.myspace.com/floydfactor

[SurrogateJoe]

Yeah, all true.... but its more about looking at it from the average audience point of view.
Most people who come to see a PF tribute are either passing fans (they know maybe Dark Side and The Wall) or are maybe familiar with the albums, but more into the Pulse setup.... there are always a few "geeks" like us too, and muso's but they make up maybe 5% of the total.

So..... the average fan does not know you are playing the solo's exactly as they should be, or are playing every tiny nuance from the albums.... they recognise the songs and the mood of the songs and maybe one or two of the more recognisable solos's, other than that they really just want to see a good band performing well.

We have seen a few other Floyd tributes who are TERRIBLE, absolutely awful, both as musicians and in how they play the songs (changing them completely, or playing stupid fast guitar solos everywhere) and yet because they play in huge venues and have massive light shows, they attract audiences in the thousands, and people walk away at the end enjoying the gig... its frustrating, but thats how it is.

The Australian Pink Floyd are obviously the template for all the rest of us..... sure, i dont like how they perform these days (a bit too clinical and predictable these days) but they put on an amazing show. I cant see any other PF tribute approaching their level.... I dont want to name the worst that i've seen..... but put it this way, two of the worst sounding and most shocking (sequencers everywhere, backing tracks, changing all the solo's, pointless song changes and general poor playing) were also the ones who were the most arrogant and rude, yet they regularly get attendances of over 1000 to their gigs. Not fair (or maybe im just a big jealous moanie)

[SurrogateJoe]

Thats kind of my view on the Aussie floyd too.
They were different 15 years ago.... they were raw, powerful, emotive and sublime back then..... guess they got too big.

There are also a few of the tibutes that do other tribute acts, some do Deep Purple one week, Floyd the next, Fleetwood Mac the next, or a generic 70's night one day, Floyd the next.....?

Oh...... and how about the note for note type bands? They bore the life out of me to be honest (ok.... we do about 80% accurate, but i do like to leave a little room to improvise and change things depending on how we feel.... i once dragged out the solo at the end of Pigs WAY beyond minutes).

[SurrogateJoe]

Just as well we dont......... or the solo's would be hours long

Actually i mostly keep it under control...... the last thing i want is to go down the route of the widdly widdly guitar solo thing... god i hate that.

So many good guitarists ruin entire gigs by playing too much, too fast too often.... they dont understand the most important note in music........ no note....... or rather, some well placed spaces.

[Floyd Factor]

Well, the terrible bands you're describing, and their approaches, sound like you are talking about some of the bands here. One of the Canadian bands I mentioned previously has been doing their show for over a decade, and it's tired & complacent. They charge huge bucks, then play the music with little to no regard for how any of it was recorded or performed. No detail, no discipline. Tasteless metal guitar solos, weak vocals, and a light show that is so superfluous and annoying that it's hard to even describe. Yet they sell well for multiple dates here a few times a year.

I can say this stuff because they seem to have a hate-on for us too, so no love lost if this gets around I guess. I don't begrudge them doing their thing, but they've done some nasty stuff to other bands (friends of ours') in other markets. And we personally felt ripped off by their $35+ show.

As for the Aussies, I have posted my opinions here before, so I won't repeat myself, but suffice it to say that I respect them & they've earned their status. Clinical now? I would have to agree. But so was the Pulse era Floyd.

As for our market, here in Canada at least, there is a contrast to what was described above. We don't have the casual PF fan coming out to the shows here. Casual fans don't drop $40 to see the "big" tribute band here, or drag themselves out to a club to see bar band do it. Only the hardcore Floydians support the live acts here, for the most part. If you staged a theatre show & promoted it normally here, the casual fans would make up no more than 25% of the audience. We WISH we could get to the casual fans... But playing to people who can fully appreciate what you're doing isn't so bad for the time being.

Live music on anything but an arena/festival level (w/recording artists) is just dying on the vine here in Toronto. The short answer to why, is the steady devaluing of live bands here, and the practices of the venue owners, among some other factors like smoking bans. But casual fans aren't on the radar here, unless you're playing someone else's event.

Just a little Canadian perspective for ya'... Steve / FF

[Nick1955]

If anyone thinks this is clinical I'll eat my hat. Well I would if I had one.

Aussies at the RAH 2007: Set the Controls

[W1P]

I do want to weigh in on the composition of, at least, our audience. Keep in mind that we operate in Southern California which has the population of a fairly good sized nation so we have a rich demographic pool from which to draw. When we started, in 1998, our crowds were mostly men in their late 30s to early 50s -- basically, your typical 1970s Pink Floyd fan base. However, as we've progressed our crowds are getting younger and younger. I think the closing of the generation gap has contributed to this (I can tell you that in 1977, I didn't listen to much music from 1947, but in 2007, kids are listening to music from 1977 pretty regularly). I also think the internet has helped provide kids a vast wealth of information about Floyd that we didn't come close to having in the 1970s. The result has been 11 year-old girls sitting on stage singing every word, not to Money, but to Fearless or Astronomy. To me, this signals the existence of a "life blood" for Floyd tributes that will likely continue for some years to come. In addition, it also means that there are very few "casual" fans at our shows -- the vast majority of our audience, especially the kids, know every bit of every lead, etc. that Floyd has ever used. However, because of this I think there is a risk that a "bad" Floyd tribute can turn off "hardcore" fans from all tributes in a hurry. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. Fortunately, we were pretty early in the game and, therefore, haven't had to face too much "competition" in our region -- and those bands that have played here (like the Aussies and The Machine) have done nothing to cheapen Floyd or cast a Floyd tributes in a bad light -- quite to the contrary.

[darkside_andy]

This is why I do it....

1974 and I'm a spotty 'oik' sitting behind the mixing desk at the Birmingham Hippodrome. The air is sweet with the smell of cannabis but I'm only 14 and as excited as hell. The encore is echoes - how good is that?

I came home with the burning desire to play the guitar and do to people what has just been done to me. So now I play in Darkside. We aren't 'the Floyd' but we're having fun.