The irony of Roger

[Hudini]

I will kindly ask you guys here, how many of you play music seriously (mosespa, oz1701, Iluvpinkfloyd, Syd'sSexy, ...)? Just curious.

It depends on what you mean by saying "seriously".

I am a musician, I write songs and play in a band, though I'm a bit lazy these days (due to a lot of work I have to cope with). We still don't have a recording, but I hope it will come by the beginning of the next year.

I believe you won't take this for "serious"...

[Syd'sSexy]

I will kindly ask you guys here, how many of you play music seriously (mosespa, oz1701, Iluvpinkfloyd, Syd'sSexy, ...)? Just curious.

Respect

Hello svor!

No, I am not a musician and can't even venture to play any instrument with any proficiency. I don't believe I have ever made a negative comment about Mr. Waters as a musician, lyricist or creative artist; in fact, I believe quite the contrary. I am not a fan of his solo material, but that is simply my personal preference. My negativism toward the man is simply with regard to his egotistical, "I walk on water" personality, which is quite apparent through almost every interview I have read or watched. That is the only negativistic opinion I have of him.

[oz1701]

I will kindly ask you guys here, how many of you play music seriously (mosespa, oz1701, Iluvpinkfloyd, Syd'sSexy, ...)? Just curious.

Respect

Hello svor!

My negativism toward the man is simply with regard to his egotistical, "I walk on water" personality...

wouldn't that comment be more appropriate applied to Mr Gilmour

[mosespa]

Likewise, my degree of musical "seriousness" depends upon what you mean by "serious."

I'm not in a band anymore because the musicians around here either suck or won't commit to anything other than playing Skynyrd songs in bars.

I play guitar, bass, drums and can make you think that I can play keyboard/piano...I learned how to do this partially because I just wanted to be able to play all of these things...and partially so that I wouldn't have to rely on undependable jackasses to record my songs.

I write and record my own music at home. I'm not particularly interested in seeing anything happen with it--someone once called me a "failure," and I was simply not interested enough in the argument to point out that before one can "fail," one has to "attempt to become..." and since I never actually attempted, I cannot be considered a "failure;"--I've heard too many horror stories about what happens with major labels and the dark side of fame, etc. etc. etc.

I just want to get my music in a position where if people want to hear it, they can...if they don't want to, they don't have to.

If I happen to make a few bucks in the process, fine. But it's not why I'm doing it.

I'm not trying to become rich and famous as a musician.

So, I guess you'd say I'm not serious since I'm more interested in personal creative satisfaction than I am in chasing dollars.

[svor]

I am a musician, I write songs and play in a band, though I'm a bit lazy these days (due to a lot of work I have to cope with). We still don't have a recording, but I hope it will come by the beginning of the next year.
I believe you won't take this for "serious"...

As a matter of fact - I will.

My negativism toward the man is simply with regard to his egotistical, "I walk on water" personality, which is quite apparent through almost every interview I have read or watched. That is the only negativistic opinion I have of him.

I perfectly understand you, but, again, what do we really know about personal relationships between them and how it influences actions? Surely not from the interviews. Everybody knows Roger was pushing too much and the others couldn't stand it anymore. But I wouldn't call anyone "a dictator" just because of his natural driving force! Thanks God, again, that this unique combination of characters yielded the best music on this planet (in the rock category). I think that we all already agreed on that.

So, I guess you'd say I'm not serious since I'm more interested in personal creative satisfaction than I am in chasing dollars.

As a matter of fact - I wouldn't.


I'm asking the question because musicians look differently on a musical structure and have another perception of the flow. It goes so far that I can almost tell who is musician here. No offence! Sometimes I literally hate myself because of what I find in songs - behind naked notes. It's a curse!

[Damn!t]

...musicians look differently on a musical structure and have another perception of the flow. It goes so far that I can almost tell who is musician here. No offence! Sometimes I literally hate myself because of what I find in songs - behind naked notes. It's a curse!

Firstly, i agree with SS (hello Sexy, muah! ) on the Rog thing...
Secondly, how the fuck can you possibly know that "non-musicians" dont have the same perception of the flow and the musical structure, then a musician? Thats kinda unfair to the all the people who simply dont play an instrument. You dont have to be a musician to fully appreciate the music and to notice the smallest details inside it. Plus, a musician is a very streched word, if you know what i mean. I know blokes who know 3 chords on the guitar and call themselves musicians...and i call them assholes....
Dont generalise people like that, slovenac....
And hello btw.

[Syd'sSexy]

Firstly, i agree with SS (hello Sexy, muah! ) on the Rog thing...

Hey Bran! You stud muffin you!

svor, you are correct in that none of us knows exactly what happened behind closed doors among the band members except their own perceptions we have read through interviews, books and the like. I am not knocking Waters for assuming creative control of the band. Yes, he had vision, and was driven. My point is, that you can be ambitious and driven without coming across as a total asshole and without creating a path of destruction as you work towards achieving your goals.

[Yucateco]

My point is, that you can be ambitious and driven without coming across as a total asshole and without creating a path of destruction as you work towards achieving your goals.

does he do that?

[svor]

...musicians look differently ... and have another perception ...

razlicito... drugaciju...

Secondly, how the fuck...
Dont generalise people like that, slovenac....

I didn't use words like you...
I kaj si ti - hrvat?
And hello to you too
The discussion continues...

[Hudini]

I kaj si ti - hrvat?

Jeste, a ja sam iz Srbije.

[mosespa]

Mi tio es infirmo y la caraterra es verde.

Post in English only, please.

It's a forum rule.

Read them if you need to.

[svor]

Now when we settled that Hudini is a Serb, Damn!t is Croat and I am Slovenian , let's stick to the topic. What was I saying?
Aha, I just wanted to say that I'm a musician and look differently onto music - just as doctor look differently on the human body. It's simply different because you're into it. And because I've had the band for 15 years, spending half a year in London - I can talk on a different level than someone who haven't.
My opinion is still that we don't really know what happened on the personal side between members of the PF. And I don't blame anyone particulary - they are all very strong peronalities (yes, even Rick - often with his melancholy contributed to the breakdown).
The irony of Roger? The irony of the characters! Roger was an engine that the others didn't want/couldn't follow. The friendship has gone away. That's all.

[Hudini]

Post in English only, please.

Izvini, mossy!

The irony of Roger? The irony of the characters! Roger was an engine that the others didn't want/couldn't follow. The friendship has gone away. That's all.

Of course. I share your opinion.

[oz1701]

My opinion is still that we don't really know what happened on the personal side between members of the PF.
The friendship has gone away. That's all.

im sure some pedantic fellow will point out that you have somewhat contradicted yourself there svor.

however i do agree with you. why would any band stay together if they didn't enjoy working and being together - apart from purely commercial reasons - it couldn't really last long.

i dont really see what this has to do with the irony of roger. all human beings are a study in contradictions so i have no problem with roger saying one thing and doing another or changing his point of view at any time in his life.

roger is not a god. he is a human being and therefore flawed - as are we all. the best of humanity can strive for perfection but i don't believe it is possible. to err is human.

once again i seem to have turned into an apologist for roger, but i believe the same goes for any human being no matter how idolised they may be.

the legacy of course remains.

[kingfisher_flashing]

Yey Oz! That is so true. Roger is so portrayed as a two headed monster or a mass murderer or some meglamaniacal leader that oppressed the masses. He is a very talented musician with a drive and attitude that obviously did not please some. He is no different to millions of other people that have had the drive to do things their way or no way at all, and look where it got Floyd - they are all living pretty bloody good lives now. I read in Inside Out, by Nick Mason that Rick was paid a salary when he was working on the Wall live performances, which for him turned out ok, because the money that was injected into the concerts and the movie was used from the profits and subsequently the other Floyd members didn't come out of it handsomely. Rick Wright didn't need to worry about that, he was getting paid a wage and therefore wasn't losing money as a a result.

All the Floyd members had personalities that in the end each other felt difficult to deal with. That just simply comes with the trappings of money and fame. Roger Waters simply had a stonger personality than the others and wanted things done and done properly. When your reputation as a band is at stake depending on the quality of the finished product, people need to act in ways that others may see as irrational and bullying to get these things done. That's life.

Feel free to throw abuse now guys, I'm used to it.

You may be wondering what the relevance of Rick Wrights situation is, but to me that is part of the irony of Roger. You put a band member on a wage, they end up making more money from the whole affair. That's the irony I guess.