Aspergers

[David Smith]

What a load of bullshit!

In your opinion sir.

this thread is,whether "Syd " Roger Barrett had Aspergers Syndrome or schizophrenia as Roger Waters surmises or was simply playing games is irrelevant and speculative.

Remember this quote, because i will use it against you in just a moment.

Got to have a label!did Aspergers exist in 1967????????

1) Nobody said 'got'

2) It has exsisted since 1944. More to the point, even if it had not been given a diagnostic label (which it had) then the condition still existed regardless of if practicioners had a name for it or not.

All creative genius have personality flaws or defects,just ask Mozart or John Lennon

Firstly, that comment you made about this thread being speculative... I would say you have continued this trend quite effectively with this huge generalization. There is nothing glamerous about mental health issues, and the amount of people who are not creative geniuses and have these disorders surely makes those that do in to an anomoly. More so, i would hardly call asperger's a personality flaw (though i would call it a mental illness)

all your left with is the music and thats all you should CARE about!

If you don't give a fuck about who creates the music then fair enough. I partly agree with this, a lot of my personal heroes are people i don't like so i'd be lying if i said i let someone's personal life get to me that much. However, i do think there is something interesting about Barret potentially have asperger's if we can draw influence upon the music from the condition... Although it is worth mentioning that i don't think he actually has it being that there has been absolutely no evidence to suggest it

[mosespa]

Did someone just get Smithified?

[Vlad The Impaler]

I'd love to Impale someone......



Hmmmm, come to think of it...lemme see if she's home.

.

[ddebil]

I'd love to Impale someone......



Hmmmm, come to think of it...lemme see if she's home.

.

Has moom infected the lot of you??

[sonsofthedesert]

Dr Smith, eeerr sorry David Smith - I feel like I am Lost in Space....you have typically taken all my comments out of context to attempt to PROVE your point - whatever that is?
I think i can smell a THESIS in the air! Or maybe a BOOK???

At no point did i call "Aspergers" a personality flaw - read it again! The comment or rather OPINION was restricted to the nature of genius musical or otherwise!

The thread is SPECULATIVE - you, me and others are offering OPINONS on someone we have never met based on no factual evidence, only based on erroneous media accounts over the years.

It's true that there is nothing glamorous about mental illness - however, historically Syd Barrett's musical legacy has been eclipsed by amateur speculation of the nature of his personality - now you can add Aspergers to the litany of media speculators. His sister Rosemary has gone on record many times stating that he did not have a mental illness.

I DO GIVE A FUCK about who creates the music (I especially repudiate this comment of yours that I don't, since my original comment, that as I said all that's left is the music, in other words, it is really vulgar and not particularly valid to speculate and hypothesise on the mental health or diagnoses of a creative artist we have never met, no? Nevertheless, this is why I mention Lennon and Mozart, two 'favourites' who academic-types enjoy 'diagnosing in hindsight') - this is why i repudiate your pretentious, overbearing UNDERGRADUATE arrogance that seems to allude that only you are capable of a valid point of view with this subject matter!!

"if we can draw influence upon the music from the condition" (quote) .... what the hell are you talking about??? More halfbaked speculation!!

Calm down and accept other opinions not in alignment with yours and I'm sure you will make a half decent Medical Professional when you gain more experience

[mosespa]

And people wonder why I look down my nose at so-called "higher education."

All it does is breed intellectual snobbery based solely upon one's ability to pass standardized tests.

"MY piece of paper says that I'm smarter than you, since you don't even HAVE a piece of paper of your own yet."

Guess what?

A college graduate is the product of an intellectual assembly line. If that's something to take pride in, well, that just goes to show how much intellect is actually involved, doesn't it?

[sonsofthedesert]

That's a valid point and i don't necessarily object to academic types,( i certainly am NOT one, an academic that is!) only pretentiousness , experience and enjoyment in life is much more important!

[zag]

obladi, bra

[David Smith]

you have typically taken all my comments out of context to attempt to PROVE your point - whatever that is?

First off, if you can show me evidence that i typically take comments out of context then i will admit a bad here, but i would hardly say that is a typical david smithism meaning if i did it then it would be atypical. Secondly, i did not have a point as such, i just did not like having a random poster jump in to a thread with the sole intention of critising the people posting on it in an aggressive manner (i.e 'this thread is bullshit' etc). My only point was that if people particularly want to discuss if Syd had aspergers then fair enough.

I think i can smell a THESIS in the air! Or maybe a BOOK???

Having already written a thesis i can assure you it was on a much more interesting topic than the mental condition of a musician i don't particularly like.

At no point did i call "Aspergers" a personality flaw - read it again! The comment or rather OPINION was restricted to the nature of genius musical or otherwise!

I admit it was my bad here, you are correct; you did say all creative geniuses have flaws or deficits so it was a different thing, though still a generalization, which brings me too...

The thread is SPECULATIVE - you, me and others are offering OPINONS on someone we have never met based on no factual evidence, only based on erroneous media accounts over the years. It's true that there is nothing glamorous about mental illness - however, historically Syd Barrett's musical legacy has been eclipsed by amateur speculation of the nature of his personality - now you can add Aspergers to the litany of media speculators. His sister Rosemary has gone on record many times stating that he did not have a mental illness.

1) Big difference here being that i never complained about speculation and then made a speculative comment of my own.

2) In this respect i think that because Syd's myth appears to be more focal amongst fans than his actual music then i guess i have less of a problem of people discussing his personal life. What i have found from floyd fans is that people who are syd fans appear to really identify with him on a personal level in a way that waters/ gilmour fans don't. If they want to speculate on how his personality influenced his music (and in doing so speculate what the guy was like from his limited media appearances and second hand sources) then good on them. Syd fans seem more interested in Syd as the person, and probably because there is something fairly captivating about the Barret myth. Being not a Barret fan i don't really get it myself, but i don't see what harm some people on an internet forum could possibly be doing.

I DO GIVE A FUCK about who creates the music (I especially repudiate this comment of yours that I don't, since my original comment, that as I said all that's left is the music, in other words, it is really vulgar and not particularly valid to speculate and hypothesise on the mental health or diagnoses of a creative artist we have never met, no?

I'm not saying it is valid, but when a new member comes on to a thread and takes just critises the thread and the people posting then my immediate reaction is not a good one. If you wanted to question it in a reasonable manner then all the more power to you, i would never have even posted. But to come in and say 'what a load of bullshit this thread is' is all the things that you accuse me of being.

Nevertheless, this is why I mention Lennon and Mozart, two 'favourites' who academic-types enjoy 'diagnosing in hindsight') - this is why i repudiate your pretentious, overbearing UNDERGRADUATE arrogance that seems to allude that only you are capable of a valid point of view with this subject matter!!

i love that you use 'undergraduate' as a slur here. First off i am not an undergraduate, i graduated last year. If you want to say 'well your attitude doesn't reflect it' then i would say judging by initial post in this thread then you are younger than me. I do not take issue with a word you said, keep in mind that i even say at the end that there is no evidence to suggest Syd had aspergers, but i do take issue with how you said it. Secondly, you're talking about arrogance when you're post begins with an aggressive statement and finishes on 'that's all you SHOULD care about'.

"if we can draw influence upon the music from the condition" .... what the hell are you talking about??? More halfbaked speculation!!

In other words if there is evidence he has aspergers and we can see how him having aspergers may have influenced his music (you know, as it influences near enough everything in the life of a person who has it) then surely there is an intereting topic there.

Calm down and accept other opinions not in alignment with yours

This makes no sense. Considering at the end i added 'Although it is worth mentioning that i don't think he actually has it being that there has been absolutely no evidence to suggest it' then i was not saying he has aspergers. Instead, all i was saying is that i have no problem with people discussing if he did or not. That means i am more accepting of other people's opinions than you are, being that you came in and said the thread was a load of bullshit.

I think you should practice what you preach sir.

[oldperfume]

Syd had problems....period! We will NEVER know to what extent & you can bet all the tea in China that his family isn't going to rush out & do a tell-all book about him; they just nixed a movie about Syd because they thought the film would just romanticize his illness. I agree. There are SOOOOO many reasons Syd got ill. I think he also pulled the wool over a few people's eyes. He was a pure artist & once he had a cup of fame, it all changed & he decided he wanted no part of it. Some people (Jerry Shirley) think he "used" his illness & soon he was "treading the backward path". All we can do is enjoy this extraordinary man's music & hope he found peace finally.

[sonsofthedesert]

Smithy,
My comment was related to the notion that Syd Barrett had Aspergers or any other form of Autism - for which there really is *no evidence* (Mozart, anyone?) ... as for the thread, well, people will comment as is their right - even if I think this type of subject matter is pointless! I also now realise you have no real interest in Syd Barrett other than as a psychology subject - at least my intention was to attempt to defend the man's good name from pointless psychobabble. And you're right about too many fans wanting to speculate on his personality - which, to me, is neither healthy, nor fair toward the creative legacy - such continual speculation is offensive imo.

Not an undergraduate - a graduate no less! (No offence meant - this is just my Douglas Adams-isms!)

If you look up my post in the new members thread you will see I have stated that I have been a Floyd/Barrett fan since 1975 - which makes me around 50 - still think you're older? (Or wiser, of course? )

I hardly think the word "Bullshit" is aggressive - heaven help us if we all become subject to the Orwellian political forces who seek to censor us!

As for the rest .... I think I will move on ....

[Idisaffect]

As a psychology student, i have found myself becoming increasingly skeptical about mental illness.

I think it mostly comes down to environment. With the obvious exceptions.

[David Smith]

I also now realise you have no real interest in Syd Barrett other than as a psychology subject - at least my intention was to attempt to defend the man's good name from pointless psychobabble

To be honest, i don't even have an interest in Syd from that respect. The first Floyd album is probably one of my least listened to ones. It's not that i don't like it as much as i don't understand why other people like it so much... But then i guess i'm a huge fan of pros and cons of hitch hiking, so each to their own I do really like his first solo album though, and perhaps the first half of the second one.

And you're right about too many fans wanting to speculate on his personality - which, to me, is neither healthy, nor fair toward the creative legacy - such continual speculation is offensive imo.

In a way, at least it keeps them talking. It's unfortunate that there is so little Barret material out there, and once it's been listened to over and over again what are fans really left with? I read the biography Crazy Diamond a long time ago wanting to see if there was something i was missing in his music - like if a knowledge of his personal life and the circumstances surrounding the recordings of his work would in some way enhance it. It actually did a bit for me though. It gave the lyrics more poigniancy and made the songs a much more emotional listening experience seeing how each one reflected where his head was at the time of recording them. Because there is so much enigma to his music and lyrics then i think speculating about his personal life can help give that music some depth by better explaining where it came from.

The problem is when it's totally unfounded though, such as aspergers, though the common diagnosis of schizophrenia has a basis in that the band have since used it as a capture all, and obviously they knew him fairly intimately.

Not an undergraduate - a graduate no less! (No offence meant - this is just my Douglas Adams-isms!)

Ah, see i though this was an 'i have a bigger academic record than you' moment here, but then tone of voice is somewhat lacking in the written word. If this whole forum used Skype it would clear up so many minunderstandings.

If you look up my post in the new members thread you will see I have stated that I have been a Floyd/Barrett fan since 1975 - which makes me around 50 - still think you're older? (Or wiser, of course? )

Actually i knew you were older because i read that post; it was just me trying to give an arsey comment because i thought you had given me one.

I hardly think the word "Bullshit" is aggressive - heaven help us if we all become subject to the Orwellian political forces who seek to censor us!

Stick this little ditty after a sentence and it becomes aggrssive online: !

As for the rest .... I think I will move on ....

Likewise sir