Barrett would have achieved success without Pink Floyd

[awayandbeyond]

Of course one can't state that without a degree of uncertainty, and I write this with out most respect for the talents of the other members of Pink Floyd.
On the other hand it is fairly certain that the other members of the band would never have gotten a recording contract without him (at least at that point in their development as songwriters)
One has to consider the fact that the group largely got by on the strength of his songs from 1967-1973 (and beyond to a lesser degree). Before the "Dark Side Of The Moon" album was released, the all-important radio air time given over to Pink Floyd songs was limited to mostly Barrett written songs. "Astronomy Domine" was a staple of nearly all Progressive/Rock FM stations in the States. It could be argued that that song alone was Pink Floyd's "golden egg" for some five years. Back in the day, if your group had just one song that was aired fairly regularly it followed that you sold lots of albums and were assured solid turnouts at at your concerts. Many of the early and growing fan base continued to follow the group in hopes that he would eventually return.
And that is just taking into consideration that one song. "Arnold Layne", "See Emily Play" and "Bike" were also heard with a degree of consistency on FM rock stations as well.
So if you imagine that if Barrett retained the Pink Floyd name and the group broke up after the second album, it is fairly safe to assume that Syd Barrett's songs and persona would have retained their appeal, even if on a lesser scale. No, his name would not be as popular among casual music fans, but he would still have had a large and true international following. Other greats such as Pete Townsend and David Bowie would still have cited him as an influence, and so on.


I think.

[Hudini]

You might be right, but then again we will never know. Pink Floyd did get their first record contract because of Syd's talents, but their own talents kept them in the business, and it is my opinion that the talents in question mostly belonged to Rick Wright who was the first member of the band forced to do a single after it became obvious that Syd was no longer functioning in a satisfactory way. As it turned out, it was actually Roger Waters whose talents eventually kept the band rolling on the big stage but he was obviously heavily influenced by Syd all throughout "Meddle", and even partially on "Dark Side of the Moon". You could say that David Gilmour was also influenced by Syd a lot at the time, but he didn't really become a fully contributing member until "Atom Heart Mother". So I'd say that yes, they owe Syd a lot for becoming what they were for all those years, but as they might have just made it on their own, only maybe not that quickly.

[Jimi Dean Barrett]

I can't see Syd getting a foot in the door if he just did the improvised stuff from the UFO club on his own?
He'd be in with a shot with his solo material... if he wasn't suffering from severe mental illness.
Yes, LSD made things worse, but even if he never touched the stuff I think he would have gone insane anyway. It's too simple to have the view "Syd took too many drugs". It mustn't have helped, but he seemed destined to go schizophrenic. Even then I'm probably simplifying matters.
No idea if he would have got past two albums if he was without Pink Floyd.
Or maybe it's like the current view of John Lennon and The Beatles?
"The Beatles would have been nothing without John Lennon, but without The Beatles, John Lennon was nothing?"

This could apply to Syd. Except it's more "Without Syd, Pink Floyd would have been not as great, and without Pink Floyd Syd became a lost cause"?
I'd love more Barrett material, and I wish "Stars" had come to something, but that's the way things turned out.

If Pink Floyd formed without Syd, would they really have got signed with stuff like "Take Up Thy Stethoscope And Walk" and "See-Saw"?

Good thread!

[Idisaffect]

I can't see Syd getting a foot in the door if he just did the improvised stuff from the UFO club on his own?

Yeah, but songs like The Gnome, Bike, Jugband Blues, The Scarecrow, Lucifer Sam, Flaming etc were not improvised. They are pop songs. Syd was a songwriter. And a lead vocalist. He certainly could have achieved success as a solo artist or with some different musicians.

Didn't floyd's original manager stick with Barrett when he left the band?

[Hudini]

Yes, Peter Jenner was the one who originally tried to persuade Barrett into making a solo record. And as it was said by the members of the band in numerous interviews, they preferred improvising and jamming to playing strictly structured songs in the beginning of their career but the audiences kept requesting "Arnold Layne" and "See Emily Play". Had the things turned out differently, Barrett could have been remembered by these two songs only, with or without Pink Floyd.

[Damn!t]

I agree that we cannot know what would happen with the Floyd without Barrett.
Predicting these things is very ungrateful and basically leads to nowhere.
We can however face a couple of facts about Syd and Floyds early days.
Syd was the driving force, and without his wackyness, they would have been just another blues cover based band. Rick had some musical training, but everybody elses roles in that early form of the Floyd was to follow what was Syd doing and to improvise a bit on the foundations that Syd set.
I can be pretty much certain that he would have made a success with any other musicians that could have been around him at that time.
Man had the aura and radiated positive vibes all around him. That is so fucking important when you're in a band.
Later when he gone mad, he got stuck in some kind of limbo from which he never got out of.
Others from the band were lost at first but didnt return strait to blues they played in the early days. They moved on from the same foundations Syd built and it took them awhile to become a band that could stand alone, be original and do brilliant things without him.

[awayandbeyond]

"I agree that we cannot know what would happen with the Floyd without Barrett.
Predicting these things is very ungrateful and basically leads to nowhere."

Not sure how speculating is "ungrateful". It certainly wasn't meant to be.
It does not seem to be a problem when some say that Syd would not have gotten anywhere without Pink Floyd ( a total fallacy and never challenged, perhaps because the notion is so absurd)

"We can however face a couple of facts about Syd and Floyds early days.
Syd was the driving force, and without his wackyness, they would have been just another blues cover based band. "

You say "wacky", I say original and brilliant songwriter. His behavior could certainly be seen as "whacky" after he had secured the band quite a recording contract with a top-flight company.

"Man had the aura and radiated positive vibes all around him. That is so fucking important when you're in a band."

Agreed. That, and compelling songs that bring recording contracts


"They moved on from the same foundations Syd built and it took them awhile to become a band that could stand alone, be original and do brilliant things without him."

Agreed. But this was not about them. Due respect was paid the band in the OP.

[Duckboy]

Barrett would have acheived success with Pink Floyd.

[GilmourGirl]

Had Barrett retained the Floyd name and carried on with no issues? What a dream that would have been. IMO the Floyd would be as big as they are today.

[JackRegan]

Of course one can't state that without a degree of uncertainty, and I write this with out most respect for the talents of the other members of Pink Floyd.
On the other hand it is fairly certain that the other members of the band would never have gotten a recording contract without him (at least at that point in their development as songwriters)
One has to consider the fact that the group largely got by on the strength of his songs from 1967-1973 (and beyond to a lesser degree). Before the "Dark Side Of The Moon" album was released, the all-important radio air time given over to Pink Floyd songs was limited to mostly Barrett written songs. "Astronomy Domine" was a staple of nearly all Progressive/Rock FM stations in the States. It could be argued that that song alone was Pink Floyd's "golden egg" for some five years. Back in the day, if your group had just one song that was aired fairly regularly it followed that you sold lots of albums and were assured solid turnouts at at your concerts. Many of the early and growing fan base continued to follow the group in hopes that he would eventually return.
And that is just taking into consideration that one song. "Arnold Layne", "See Emily Play" and "Bike" were also heard with a degree of consistency on FM rock stations as well.
So if you imagine that if Barrett retained the Pink Floyd name and the group broke up after the second album, it is fairly safe to assume that Syd Barrett's songs and persona would have retained their appeal, even if on a lesser scale. No, his name would not be as popular among casual music fans, but he would still have had a large and true international following. Other greats such as Pete Townsend and David Bowie would still have cited him as an influence, and so on.


I think.

His Pink Floyd would not last. But if he would been something like David Bowie, then yes i guess...

[Duckboy]

Had Barrett retained the Floyd name and carried on with no issues? What a dream that would have been. IMO the Floyd would be as big as they are today.

Yeah maybe even nearly as popular as The Turtles or something...

[awayandbeyond]

"If Syd had stayed right he probably would have beat Ray Davies at his own game". Gilmour


It's strange that there are very few comparisons between Davies and Barrett these days. Pink Floyd Inc used to even promote the comparison in concert programmes post-Barrett .