Love the one you're with?

[Flying pig437]

So that's it. I've made my move for my beloved...sorry a woman who I wanted to make my beloved...she is/was beloved by me but she's not going to leaver bozo for me. So, I'm handling it o.k. It's tough and I'm pretty cut up but I'm also a relived. I'd have been happy...over the moon, it'd have been magical...the best thing ever to have married her but anxieties and responsiblities would have come with it which I'm not free of which is the upside. But it's got me thinking.
What happens when I meet someone I like and we start going out. It's v.likely and is probably the case with lots of people the world over that when they can't be with the person they are most besotted with they don't say well I can't go out with anyone else 'cause I couldn't be honest with that person 'cause being honest would mean saying that you'd rather be with someone else. But surely millions of people are in that situation. Does anyone else have that moral dilema or any thoughts on this situation?

[Hudini]

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure that I really understand you.
If I get this straight, you are in love with a woman who's dating someone else and refuses to break up with them to be with you at your insistence, and you plan to date a random person while still being in love with that woman?

[Flying pig437]

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure that I really understand you.
If I get this straight, you are in love with a woman who's dating someone else and refuses to break up with them to be with you at your insistence, and you plan to date a random person while still being in love with that woman?

well it's not just me. I mean yeah. I am in that situation but my main point is how many people aren't in that situation? how many women wouldn't leave their husbands at the drop of a hat for Brad Pitt? How many guys wouldn't leaver their wives for Pippa Middleton's ass? Is it imoral to go out with someone you're very fond of and happy with knowing if someone else called you up you'd drop them? It's not nice but who's going to say to themselves 'I'm not going to go out with anyone I'm just very fond of'. No one's going to be so moralistic and do that but if you're a conciencies person, like I am then it would play on your mind.

[Flying pig437]

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure that I really understand you.

and I'm not really after anyone's help except in the exploration of a moral dilema. If i meet somone I'm not going to worry about it too much. Life's not a fairy tale and I'm not going to make myself unhappy simply because of high-minded moral principals or an unresolved moral dileama or a moral dilema that can only be resolved by me or anyone who's not with the one they most want not going out with anyone else becasuse it's not truly what they want. Millons of millions of people must be in that situation...either that or the fact I'm willing to go out with somone while still carrying a touch for somone else means I'm a shitty person.

[Hudini]

I'm beginning to understand and here's my opinion.

First of all, very few people leave their spouse, fiancee or serious involvement for another person, no matter how in love they are. Most of people settle on cheating. If she refuses to even cheat on her bozo with you, I guess that she's either a very moral person or doesn't give a rodent's rectum about you. Sorry, but I somehow get the impression that the latter might be the problem here.

When I met my fiancee, she's been in a two-year relationship. We fell in love with each other and started dating each other, but only after she dumped her bozo. Before she dumped him, the most intimate contact I could hope for from her was a hug and a smooch on the cheek. Now, we've been together for thirteen months and it's the best fucking thirteen months of my 30-year life. Now, if she weren't in love with me, I sincerely doubt that she would drop the security of a long relationship she had and pursue something insecure with a random person such as me, while on the other hand I might have done a good job convincing her that I would never use her and dump her and that I would stick with her for better or worse (and believe me, there's been worse) and that's perhaps just what you failed to do. I somehow get the impression that she still thinks you're just no better than her current relationship, and if you are really in love with her you should unequivocally let her know that you're not.

Now, dating other random people is not really a way to let her know that she's the one. It will only let her know that you're capable of dating women just for the sake of sex and if she's ever thought about having a go with you that will make her think that she'll be just another number in your little black book, like random girls you'd be dating. And dating random girls is not a way to wait for someone to come down from a cloud. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with dating insignificant people while being in love with someone else (people do have their, erm, needs), but you should explicitly make it clear with these random girls that you're dating them simply for fun and that they shouldn't expect anything serious from you. You'd be surprised how many girls would settle with that. But, that way you'd probably lose respect with the one you're really in love with...

Put simple, if you really love that girl - forget about others and just try and try again.

I hope this helps a bit.

[Flying pig437]

I'm beginning to understand and here's my opinion.

First of all, very few people leave their spouse, fiancee or serious involvement for another person, no matter how in love they are. Most of people settle on cheating. If she refuses to even cheat on her bozo with you, I guess that she's either a very moral person or doesn't give a rodent's rectum about you. Sorry, but I somehow get the impression that the latter might be the problem here.

.

You've done it again. I'm not really interested in your opionion about my situation. My situation just triggered some thoughts about a moral dilema.

[Flying pig437]

I'm beginning to understand and here's my opinion.


Now, dating other random people is not really a way to let her know that she's the one. It will only let her know that you're capable of dating women just for the sake of sex and if she's ever thought about having a go with you that will make her think that she'll be just another number in your little black book, like random girls you'd be dating. And dating random girls is not a way to wait for someone to come down from a cloud. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with dating insignificant people while being in love with someone else (people do have their, erm, needs), but you should explicitly make it clear with these random girls that you're dating them simply for fun and that they shouldn't expect anything serious from you. You'd be surprised how many girls would settle with that. But, that way you'd probably lose respect with the one you're really in love with...

Put simple, if you really love that girl - forget about others and just try and try again.

I hope this helps a bit.

Well that paragraph was the kind of thing I was asking about. I'd be surprised if there would be many girls who someone said explicitly that they were just being dated for a bit of fun. I wouldn't risk telling them that and if someone did, which they'd only do as a point of prinicipal, then they wouldn't think 'oh what a prinicipaled guy to tell me I'm just a bit of fun' they'd think 'this shit's just using me' which, in my case, unless I fell for her in such a way as to want her more than this woman I'm trying to get out of my system, I would be and to get back to the OP that's my point. How many people aren't doing that? How many are there not dating people 'cause they've not been able to be with the person they most love. There must be millions.
and as for trying and trying again well that's the last thing I'm gonna do. She knows my name and can contact me on Facebook. I only know her from her work in the Library in the town centre and if I persisit in going there then I'm going to be in stalker terrotory. I've just got to hope she thinks bozo's, in her words, 'commiment phobia' makes her think he doesn't love her and that she'll leave him and contact me. Also, I said I wouldn't go back to that library and if I do then I'll be going back on my word. I might go back and just see but not for a good few mths. Maybe next year sometime. Definetly not before then.

[Hudini]

I'm sorry if my post has offended you in some way. I am resolving a rather difficult situation in my life at this point which makes me a bit untactful. It wasn't my intention.

As for dating girls just for fun, it's actually a matter of your choice to tell them not to expect much from you or not. There are really a lot of girls who'd be fine with dating someone just for fun/sex, but I guess that no one would willingly admit that in fear of being stigmatized as "easy", to say the least. I guess that it all boils down to your experience to recognize these kind of girls from decent girls who'd want their relationship to evolve, with or without love. Now, loveless long relationships are a completely other issue, but I believe that you're pretty aware of the fact that most of the people choose their partners based on superficial characteristics and then stick with them out of simple fear of aging alone, so if you plan to date people on a superficial basis you must be aware of the fact that you might come across a decent girl who'd expect more from you, and that surely isn't a situation you want yourself in when you love someone else.

To answer the question, is it moral to date someone and love someone else? It really depends on what you consider morality to be. Personally, I would never do such a thing (I guess I'm a too committing person), but I really see nothing wrong with that - as long as you've set terms with your temporary partner. What this really means is that if you only want to have fun with someone, you should tell them that openly. As I said there's a lot of girls who'd be fine with that. There's also a lot of girls who wouldn't, but it's on you to make the difference between these two categories.



And when I said "try and try again", I didn't really mean that you should stalk her. Speaking openly to her while you two are still practically acquaintances might not have been the best of ideas, but I don't think you've spoiled anything with it. If I were you, I'd keep quiet for a while now, a few weeks could do just fine, but I'd definitely try to establish contact again sooner or later. You can occasionally rent a book from the library she works in - not necessarily in her queue! - or you can ask her for an opinion on a book. Engage in casual conversations, a couple of sentences would be enough for starters. If you're friends on Facebook, you can chat with her sometimes or send her a nice birthday wish. The important thing is not to be too intense with anything you do - the intensity will come when she's ready. Just occasionally let her know that you care, and don't rush things. Patience and persistence are as important as love, not just at this stage but throughout your future relationship.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm treating you like an idiot who can't treat a girl right. I wish you well, mate. Just take it easy and believe in yourself.

Cheers.

[Flying pig437]

And when I said "try and try again", I didn't really mean that you should stalk her. Speaking openly to her while you two are still practically acquaintances might not have been the best of ideas, but I don't think you've spoiled anything with it. If I were you, I'd keep quiet for a while now, a few weeks could do just fine, but I'd definitely try to establish contact again sooner or later. You can occasionally rent a book from the library she works in - not necessarily in her queue! - or you can ask her for an opinion on a book. Engage in casual conversations, a couple of sentences would be enough for starters. If you're friends on Facebook, you can chat with her sometimes or send her a nice birthday wish. The important thing is not to be too intense with anything you do - the intensity will come when she's ready. Just occasionally let her know that you care, and don't rush things. Patience and persistence are as important as love, not just at this stage but throughout your future relationship.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm treating you like an idiot who can't treat a girl right. I wish you well, mate. Just take it easy and believe in yourself.

Cheers.

It's a bit late for that. I totally went off the deep end last sat. morning and proposed to her. I'm kinda glad in a way 'cause it's meant i've got no alternative but to forget about her and move on. In fact the more I think about it the more I'm begining to regret it although I'm just moving on now. The thing is talking to people about it irl and online is very akward 'cause I was going in that library for 3 1/2 yrs and so there was a lot of interaction between us which can't be summed up so anything I say is only a small part of a big mosaic that made me do what I did. So, when people have opinions about it, esp. negative ones, then it irritates me 'cause no one can say whether or not or to what extent I'd misread the signals. She told me her bozo was 'commitment phobic' which just seemed to indicate he didn't love her and maybe she'd think like that if I did something as drastic as being the other extreme. I just decided to propose to her not long after I woke up Sat. Morning. Within 2 hrs. I'd done it. I mean why would a guy be 'commiment phobic' with a woman he was in love with? The ans. could be he's not in love with her. She said the other day 'we've just moved in together, in fact.' I should have said. 'that's very conveninet for him'. A/w it wasn't the right time. I don't actually want a relationship atm 'cause of the health problems I've got but I just thought what if she get's pregnant or he proposes? So, I had to do something and I thought if I just ask her out or tell her I love her it might not be enough to convince her to leave him so I proposed! I had to do it otherwise it might have been too late!

[mosespa]

I'm just cynical, jaded and bitter enough to believe that the key to a successful relationship is the ability to tell the right lie at the right time. Because sooner or later the new wears off and then you have to at least try to pretend to be content in a relationship that you may be questioning.

I spent the first decade and a half of my adult life trying to find happiness in relationships...then finally found it after a couple of years of getting used to being single.

I've had opportunities to pair off which I declined as politely as one can...I took one woman up on a relationship offer and while it ended, I've taken from it some important things which I'll carry with me forever; so I don't regret the involvement...but it also feels good to just be "single and not looking" again.

Which, I suppose, is why I'm chiming in here.

When it comes to "remaining single out of honoring the love to the object of one's affection," I can see pluses and minuses. It certainly is an act of capital L, capital, O, capital V, capital E that carries a pretty weighty integrity, it also seems akin to shooting one's self in the foot, I think.

It certainly gives the other person all of the power in the relationship, doesn't it?

If dating other women is a violation of that love...and I'm not saying that it isn't...I would think it best that one remain single...but to do it for one's own self. For the satisfaction of being single...and not looking...not because one is so besotten with another as to preclude the idea of a serious relationship with someone else (which is willingly cutting one's self off from other possibilities in the name of a person who obviously doesn't have the same feelings as one's self,) but because one chooses not to identify themselves through the person that they share their bed with.

But that's just my opinion.

[wiped]

Well one thing I learned from all this is Pink Floyd Box Sets and Windows 7 sales just went up by 1 a piece ....

[henno]

flying pig, my own opinion in this is as follows

it sounds to me what you have for this girl is not love, but infatuation. I do not believe 'love' can be formed without spending a long amount of time being together with a person and experiencing all of lifes trials, tribulations and surprises. I may be incorrect in this, but it reads to me like you have never actually officially formed a relationship with this person, other that a friendship due to common interests. In my opinion its not possible to love a person based on what you have said before. I think that you need to connect on all sorts of levels before you can say you love someone. You need to connect on an emotional level, on a spiritual level, on a physical and sexual level, and share a common sense of humour, sense of community and sense of humanity. Have you had to console this person at the loss of a close friend or family member? Have you had to stand by her if she missed a period and had a pregnancy scare? Have you gone away together on a holiday when it was just the two of you? Have you ever had to bail her out of a sticky situation or vice versa? These are the kinds of life experiences that i believe someone can look upon and say, yes, i know i love that person.

i think you have done all you can at this stage by putting your cards on the table. she now knows that there is another person out there who feels so strongly about her that he was willing to propose marriage based on their current relationship standing. However, that standing may not, and appears not, to be enough for her to alter her present condition. And i think you have to be respectful of that. The fact that they have just 'moved in together' is the next step on their relationship ladder that may be the making or breaking of them.

[Flying pig437]

Well one thing I learned from all this is Pink Floyd Box Sets and Windows 7 sales just went up by 1 a piece ....

No you also learnt that I'm relived that I don't have to spend the rest of my life tied down to a wife and family!

[Flying pig437]

flying pig, my own opinion in this is as follows

it sounds to me what you have for this girl is not love, but infatuation. I do not believe 'love' can be formed without spending a long amount of time being together with a person and experiencing all of lifes trials, tribulations and surprises. I may be incorrect in this, but it reads to me like you have never actually officially formed a relationship with this person, other that a friendship due to common interests. In my opinion its not possible to love a person based on what you have said before. I think that you need to connect on all sorts of levels before you can say you love someone. You need to connect on an emotional level, on a spiritual level, on a physical and sexual level, and share a common sense of humour, sense of community and sense of humanity. Have you had to console this person at the loss of a close friend or family member? Have you had to stand by her if she missed a period and had a pregnancy scare? Have you gone away together on a holiday when it was just the two of you? Have you ever had to bail her out of a sticky situation or vice versa? These are the kinds of life experiences that i believe someone can look upon and say, yes, i know i love that person.

i think you have done all you can at this stage by putting your cards on the table. she now knows that there is another person out there who feels so strongly about her that he was willing to propose marriage based on their current relationship standing. However, that standing may not, and appears not, to be enough for her to alter her present condition. And i think you have to be respectful of that. The fact that they have just 'moved in together' is the next step on their relationship ladder that may be the making or breaking of them.

Yeah that's all true in terms of how relatinship's work but before you can get to a shared love or I guess what could be called proper love then people experience what I experience with Helen which is an incredible longing for her. If you don't long for someone then you dont have any love for them and never will.

[cwta eugene]

The wife and I have been together for almost ten years now. Shortly before we started dating I had a terrible breakup with the (then) girl of my dreams. It's odd to say it now cause it sounds so stupid in hindsight, but I just kinda figured the girl I'm with now would always just be "second best". That wore off pretty quickly in light of the things henno was talking about; the things that really define what love is. Take a chance with someone else.