ITF DVD

Post by **Keith Jordan** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 6:57 pm

Roger Waters was the main creative force for the band that made the band as big as it is in my opinion. Now he has left and those members that are left behind are using their name (which was largley made iconic by Roger Waters) to tour noise such as The Division Bell. I like TDB but it is entertainment to my ears and I am not sure I like all the people that it took to make it and the synths, drum machines etc. Trashy.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:19 pm

The band was made big by DSOTM, and i honestly don't know that Roger Waters or the three other are responsible for this. The Tychè is powerfull, dear Keith. From then on Roger became the creative force, but nobody is unreplaceable. Your opinion on TDB is your opinion ( as you know quiet well )

Post by **mosespa** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:49 pm

I don't think it's only his opinion.

I don't know a single soul who feels that TDB is on a par with Meddle, DSOTM, WYWH, Animals, The Wall or even The Final Cut.

I was given a copy of TDB by a guy I know who bought it because it said Pink Floyd...and he had heard me going on and on about this Pink Floyd band.

He didn't like the CD AT ALL and asked me if I wanted it since I liked them so much.

I've also seen other copies of TDB abandoned at work and a few other places.

I've never seen a copy of the other albums lying around like so much trash.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:10 pm

You can't prove your theory on an empirical basis

Post by **mosespa** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:31 pm

Spinoza wrote:You can't prove your theory on an empirical basis

What would that be?

The evidence of my own senses? I have seen three abandoned copies of TDB...I have NEVER seen an abandoned Meddle, DSOTM, WYWH, Animals, The Wall or even TFC.

The evidence of sales? TDB hasn't sold as many copies as The Wall or DSOTM, so it must not be as good.

The evidence of other people's opinions? This is the third PF web board I've been on in which the majority of people do not feel that TDB is "up to scratch."

The failure of the singles? No single off of TDB got as high as ABITW Part Two.

The quality of music and lyrics? Well...this is quite subjective, but it doesn't take an English major to see that Gilmour and Co.'s lyrics are pretty banal compared to Roger's.

Or what about the fact that TDB's theme of "interrupted communication" is just a variation on The Wall's theme of "communication not being made," thus seeming to prove Gilmour and Co. incapable of original thought.

Any of this what you say couldn't be done?

David Smith · Post by **David Smith** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:37 pm

Come on people, would you rather hear 3 quarters of a band that originaly performed the song Money, or a total stranger who hangs about with the bassist of the song money performing it?

I feel this debate has turned to much in to a roger versus dave debate again when all we were doing was discussing the quality of a dvd. Look, all reach for your cannabis, smoke it, relax and continue with the proper debate. It's not against the law for us all to relax occasionally on this forum.

Now come on, the dvd, can w ehave more opinions on that?

Post by **mosespa** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:53 pm

David Smith wrote:Come on people, would you rather hear 3 quarters of a band that originaly performed the song Money, or a total stranger who hangs about with the bassist of the song money performing it?

I would have to say that depends on whether or not the bassist with the guys hanging around him is the author of the song.

In this case, the bassisst IS the author of the song and the 3 quarters of the band who originally performed it no longer perform it as faithfully as they once did...they have added too much "fat" to the muscle, whereas, Roger sticks pretty true to how you think the song should sound...which makes sense since, after all, HE wrote the song.

Real Pink in the Inside · Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:59 pm

Spinoza wrote:The band was made big by DSOTM, and i honestly don't know that Roger Waters or the three other are responsible for this.

Spinoza, Keith said "Roger Waters was the main creative force for the band that made the band as big as it is in my opinion." Nobody is saying the other three meant nothing to Pink Floyd, but clearly Roger Waters was the main creative force even on DSOTM, as he wrote all of the lyrics and contributed as much to the music as any other member, if not more.

I think Roger Waters put the Pink in Floyd, and it's not Pink Floyd without Waters just like it's not Pink Floyd without any of the other three members too.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:00 pm

mosespa wrote:
I would have to say that depends on whether or not the bassist with the guys hanging around him is the author of the song.
.

So you would rather hear the author with some wacko's raping the song "he wrote" than three of the original members when the song was recorded.
Now you're drifting on emotions

Post by **mosespa** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:05 pm

Spinoza wrote:
So you would rather hear the author with some wacko's raping the song "he wrote" than three of the original members when the song was recorded.
Now you're drifting on emotions

First of all, if the "raping" is done with the permission of the author, then it's not a "rape."

Second of all...yes, I would much rather watch the Prime Mover of the band than I would watch a bunch of Second Handers attempt to re-create the Prime Mover's glory without his involvment.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:08 pm

mosespa wrote: The evidence of my own senses? I have seen three abandoned copies of TDB...I have NEVER seen an abandoned Meddle, DSOTM, WYWH, Animals, The Wall or even TFC.

The evidence of sales? TDB hasn't sold as many copies as The Wall or DSOTM, so it must not be as good.

Wow, How many copies did TFC sell ??? I'll check this up tomorrow. Well i have seen abandoned copies of DSOTM. I even know people ( young people), totally ignorant of PF, that liked TDB. If you would give them WYWH in the first place, i think it wouldn't light their fire for PF, because it is from 1975. It sounds not that recent, and you know: 3it's all in your head".

mosespa wrote: Or what about the fact that TDB's theme of "interrupted communication" is just a variation on The Wall's theme of "communication not being made," thus seeming to prove Gilmour and Co. incapable of original thought.

Any of this what you say couldn't be done?

Original toughts: i can give you some others: 1999: In The Flesh-tour ; Pink Floyd Best Of: "Echoes".

BTW Mosespa, you should know that the communication-theme of the Wall is much deeper ad different from that of TDB.

Real Pink in the Inside · Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:12 pm

Spinoza wrote:Wow, How many copies did TFC sell ???

As far as I know, TDB and TFC are both only certified double platinum by the RIAA. However, I'm not sure which has sold better, but it's not like TDB out-sold TFC as much as some would have you believe. Neither compare to the sales numbers for DSOTM, The Wall, WYWH, and Animals.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:13 pm

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
Spinoza wrote:The band was made big by DSOTM, and i honestly don't know that Roger Waters or the three other are responsible for this.

Spinoza, Keith said "Roger Waters was the main creative force for the band that made the band as big as it is in my opinion." Nobody is saying the other three meant nothing to Pink Floyd, but clearly Roger Waters was the main creative force even on DSOTM, as he wrote all of the lyrics and contributed as much to the music as any other member, if not more.

I think Roger Waters put the Pink in Floyd, and it's not Pink Floyd without Waters just like it's not Pink Floyd without any of the other three members too.

No bashing RPITI but i think you didn't got my point. There are other "forces" beside the members of PF that made DSOTM famous, and thus made PF famous. Even on Meddle Roger's contribution was great, why didn't it become a big-seller ? I'm not minimalising Roger's work, nor uplifting Gilmour or the others. Even the Floyd admit they can't explain the succes of DSOTM.

Spinoza · Post by **Spinoza** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:15 pm

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
Spinoza wrote:Wow, How many copies did TFC sell ???
As far as I know, TDB and TFC are both only certified double platinum by the RIAA. However, I'm not sure which has sold better, but it's not like TDB out-sold TFC as much as some would have you believe. Neither compare to the sales numbers for DSOTM, The Wall, WYWH, and Animals.

I just wanted to show that numbers of soldcopies don't prove anything

Real Pink in the Inside · Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:19 pm

Real Pink in the Inside wrote:
Spinoza wrote:Wow, How many copies did TFC sell ???
As far as I know, TDB and TFC are both only certified double platinum by the RIAA.

TDB - 3 times platinum (Certified 3rd time platinum in 1999)
TFC - 2 times platinum

I don't have any overall sales numbers (i.e., I don't know exactly how many copies each album sold world-wide)

For RIAA gold and platinum searches: http://www.riaa.org/Gold-Intro-2.cfm