The pros and cons of Roger Waters

[David Smith]

If this verges to close to a waters gilmour debate then sorry.

Ok, apart from me is there anyone here who thinks Roger's solo career has been pretty crap?

TPACOHH was on my opinion a very good piece of work, it was original and in places memorable. It was an album that gets better with a lot of listening sessions. However, i reckon it's all down hill from there.

Radio Kaos is awful. I'm embarassed to say i own it. A disgrace of an album. Roger defying people taking his trademark name and so he does an album even further from the original pink floyd style. It was also even worse than AMLOR.

Amused To Death was also dire. The album had some nice songs (the title track, three wishes and watching tv come to mind) but in general i feel there was to many session players and the amount of interfeirance from others in the songs (the women in TMR come to mind now) ruin the confrontatonal nature of the album. Songs like WGW (all parts) seem to much like Roger trying to get a single and ultimatly the production is good at creating an atmoshphere between songs e.t.c but can ruin the songs themselves.

And Perfect Sense was awful. Although the ending to the album where the commentator utters the year "1984" is just great. After hearing it i read the book, brilliant.

Really, his career's not been great outside pink floyd, but mostly because he's not independant enough and constantly relies upon other singers and musicians. ATD may aswell have been an album by The Bleeding Hearts Band because it didn't seem like a RW album should, the whole thing was just crammed with session men and back up singers. Why not just use your own talent Roger?

[bong]

I can't wait to read some replies.

[Mr Belgium]

David, I guess you will not buy Roger's next album?

[Feeling Very Pink]

This is me in uncharacteristically 'outspoken' form.

I think The Pros And The Cons Of Hitch Hiking is a bit boring, and prefer the In The Flesh version of 'Every Strangers Eyes' (although surely some of the vocals are the same as the album version - y'know, the high bits). I like the title track, and a lot of the lyrics, and I LOVE the Winnie the Pooh excerpt (which he later paraphrased in the '92 Q interview).

Pathetic, he said.

I rather like Radio K.A.O.S.. Who cares if the album sounds eighties-ish? It isn't that bad. I like the backing vocals on 'Radio Waves', and Paul Carrack's singing on 'The Powers That Be' is as convincing as ever.

Both these albums and Amused To Death are way too concerned with narrative structure, lyrics, and the messages being put forward. Quite simply, there aren't enough tunes.

However, the modest selection of solo songs on In The Flesh are all good. I am genuinely stirred by 'The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range', 'It's A Miracle' and 'Amused To Death' - all three superior to the original studio versions.

And what's wrong with relying on outside musicians? I say it gives a broader appeal to the listener. It's more interesting. Roger Waters is a competent bassist, at best, and an okay singer. I think it's perfectly understandable that he should want to take advantage of his position and call in some hired hands. At least his solo albums don't sound as messy and convoluted as A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.

I'd rather have that album than any Roger Waters LP, though.

[NewEarthMud]

Pros and Cons is a great record, much better than Momentary and also better than Division Bell.

Radio KAOS is so, so, so terrible and after listening to it on my pc as a download I deleted the files and have never bought it and will never, ever buy KAOS. It's very bad... even worse than Momentary, and I think Momentary is utterly ridiculous.

Amused to Death has it's moments... how can you beat a song like Ballad of Bill Hubbard? Or Watching TV? But songs like What God Wants are just comical... literally you can sit there and really focus on a piece of music like What God Wants and just... laugh at it. If Roger never used any female backup singers EVER again.. it would be good. But I feel Amused to Death is still better than Momentary... probably better than Division Bell as well just based on the powerful lyrics on ATD.

Roger's next solo record that is supposedly gonna be released this year is gonna be great... I just have that feeling. I hope he uses Doyle as a singer a lot more and shares some parts with him... the casual Floyd fans would love that. I'd also like to hear more guitar solos and more of that "Each Small Candle" sound he had going on... and even songs like Flickering Flame would be amazing... with just Roger on acoustic... maybe a slide guitar as well. How could you beat that? You couldn't. Hopefully this record gets out this year, I think it'll be his best solo work yet. Apparently most of the songs are already done, it's a matter of giving the songs time to sink in with Roger... he wants to be sure the songs are right... he doesn't wanna realize after the record is out that one shouldn't have been on there... or one should have been done with a different arrangement.

But you gotta be excited about the new record... I'm gonna buy it the first day it's out.

[David Smith]

I don't know if i'm going to buy the next roger record. Although his solo career has so far been pretty crap i will probably buy it to complete the collection. Hell, i already bought Radio Kaos so this can't be to bad.

When does his album com out again?

Anyway, roger should just do more acoustic songs where it's JUST him. Come on, although there was other instruments songs like Mother, POTW parts 1 and 2, and especially WYWH were just brilliant songs. Better than a bunch of session men and hired singers releasing an album under the Roger Waters name.

[Mr Belgium]

David
I understand your ideas about Roger. No problem. But, his solo work simply is different. Don't compare it to Pink Floyd. And Perfect Sense is not a nice song. But I do appreciate Each Small Candle, Flickering Flame and Ca Ira Ouverture. And yet another big bunch of his solo work. To summarize, I do not see a lot of cons in Roger. I think he is OK.

[fatoldsun]

I for one think overall, Roger's solo work is quite good save Radio KAOS. Amused and Hitch Hiking are both lyrically and musically above average. I would have to think the World as it is now would give Roger a chance to expand on his favorite themes...War, insanity...and curious to hear if any new album exploits such current events. Always like to get Water's perspective.

[David Smith]

I'm trying hard not to compare roger to pink floyd, but the thing is both TPACOHH and ATD sounded like Pink Floyd albums. Roger hasn't really progressed his music beyond sounding like pink floyd so I suppose my problem is that he still sounds like them, just not as good.

And yeah i know he's entitled to do it, it's just frustrating because they just have to be compared. Just like TDB has to be compared to DSOTM.

[NewEarthMud]

Pros and Cons simply does not sound like a Pink Floyd record. I've actually played the record to casual Floyd fans who have never heard the record... they liked it but said it did not sound like Floyd.

Roger has been progressive, I disagree with you. In my opinion it is the Floyd after Roger left that didn't progressive. Division Bell is a step back.. it is an attempt to get a song played on radio and an attempt to sound like the WYWH type Floyd.

Would Radio KAOS ever be a Floyd record? No, no... that's Roger being a progressive artist. I hate the record personally but it's progressive.

I also do not think a song like What God Wants would ever be a Floyd song..

None of Roger's work sounds like Floyd besides a few tunes like Ballad of Bill Hubbard, Each Small Candle, and a few others...

But for the most part I really disagree with you. It's not as good as Floyd, no, but his solo work I feel is stronger and more progressive than post-waters Floyd.

[mosespa]

I love all of Roger's solo work, although Hitch Hiking is my least favorite.

KAOS is my favorite "put it on and listen to the whole thing from beginning to end" solo album from Roger, but I think that ATD has a few songs on it that are quite superior to KAOS.

I think the solo songs on ITF are weak in comparison to the original...granted, on the original, Roger sounds like an old man who has smoked WAY too many cigarettes, on ITF, he just doesn't seem to have the passion and fire in his vocal delivery.

It's almost as if he's bored with the songs...and this was the first tour he got to perform these songs live on.

My favorite songs by Roger solo are:

Amused To Death (perhaps his greatest work)
Home
The Powers That Be
Who Needs Information
The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range
Perfect Sense
Sexual Revolution

These, to me, represent the cream of the crop of Roger's solo songs as far as both words and music working together go.

There are other songs with deeper lyrics, but maybe the music isn't "all that" or vice versa.

[Tommy]

I have not heard any of these albums, nor do i care to after reading these replies. Also, about WYWH, yes, its a great song, but personally i think Daves voice fits it well, but i could see Roger singing it too. Of course, with Mother, i think roger sings it beautifully, and its the best song off the wall. Dave couldnt sing that i dont think

[TheVegetableMan]

I love Roger's solo work. Including Music From The Body. I will say that KAOS is my least favorite. I just have 2 criticisms about this discussion.
1) Some one mentioned Rogers use of outside musicians on his albums. It's been my understanding that he's been using the same core members of the Bleeding Heart Band since the KAOS recordings. With the exception of Jeff Beck. It also stands to mention that he's used some of the same producers as Pink Floyd, which I think is a mistake, but has done somewhat better than the Floyd has in my opinion. And speaking of the latter day Floyd.....they seem to use far more "outside" musicians on thier albums than Roger does and their 3/4 of the band.

2) Your comparing a singular artist removed from the trappings of a band he once lead. Of course he's gonna try to reinvent himself. I didn't see anyone compare TPACOHH to About Face, which was released that same year. I think Pros out weighs Gilmour's effort by leaps. Though there are 2 or 3 songs on About Face that I like. Does About Face come off as a Pink Floyd album. I don't see it. That's not to slight Gilmour. He has his moments. His first solo album is awesome.

If anyones solo effort sounds anything close to a Pink Floyd album, I'd have to go with Nick Mason's Ficticious Sport, even though it's really a Carla Bley album.

[NewEarthMud]

Lets not forget Clapton on Pros and Cons

[TheVegetableMan]

Not forgetting Clapton, but Clapton played with Waters before the formation of the Bleeding Heart Band